Gods and Jobs

[djjdiss]

To Anonymoose and the others that have made their cases here:

It has been entertaining to read your thoughts and I have enjoyed hearing the different angles on this matter, but in the end I am going to have side with Anonymoose and all others that concur on this one.


For those of you that have stated that the gear is the tell all as to which job will be what, you couldn't be further from the truth. As a CNJ that heals I strive to have the best heals I can and guess what kind of attire has healing potency on it? COWLS!! Guess who can wear them? ME. Both classes can wear cowls currently.

My point here is simple: SE can easily switch the Guilds story NPC's to wear gear that looks more appropriate for their new roles in the future. This process would take a few days at most since all the cut scenes are done in real time.

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Now for the Lore. Most of you believe that CNJ should be BLM's due to elemental affinity. While this would be politically correct, it's not structurally feasible. The lore we are dealing with is from FFXIV when it first launched. They clearly had no idea what to do with DoM's or what roles they would give them. Here today in 2011 Yoshi and his team have drawn a line in the sand and started to define what THM's and CNJ's should do.

Evidence of this?

CNJ's are now the best healers and THM's can essentially nuke harder.

Although many of you seem to fight this change, it is happening regardless. This is essentially why they have not added any class quests to the game, since the lore is very mangled.

How are they going to fix the mangled lore? The introduction of a catastrophic event.

It makes for a perfect excuse to redesign the entire game as they see fit. How many of you will adopt the change they are about to introduce is strictly on an individual basis, but IT WILL HAPPEN.

It would be easy for SE to shift the THM and CNJ guilds around or just switch the class names in general since there isn't much content that revolves around them.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

So I guess what i'm saying is: Don't think in the past. Don't think about the content that was made Pre Yoshi. Just about all of it is being thrown away and a new more traditional FF experience is being drawn up in its place. After all, it's what we want isn't it?

I will bet anyone money as to what will happen.

THM (or whatever it's called when 1.21 comes out)
------------->BLM
--------------in the distant future-------RDM

CNJ (or whatever it's called when 1.21 comes out)
------------->WHM
------------in the distant future-------SMN


What you guys need to do though is stop associating names with skill sets. They will more than likely shift since this game was originally created to break the mold and be a classless/jobless system essentially.

Yoshi is now reverting the game back to its roots and making the jobs and classes have more definable roles.

Don't be surprised if several of the classes skills become closed off to only that class. it's how the game should be.

"JPGAMES.DE, Frederick: Damn. *everyone laughs*

Yoshida Naoki: We are going to make sure to do everything to get the balance right and then we are going to make adjustments to that. For example, the marauder is going to be a really strong attacker, but we don’t want to spoil all the gladiator’s tank positional skills. We are going to make adjustments, of course, when we bring in the job system. You can be more specialized in a different area, for example, the warrior will be really more warrior-like than a marauder going in that direction. You will soon see all those class identities with 1.20 and 1.21, when we make those balance adjustments. Of course we need to improve some areas and some areas might be shifted to a different job, so some people might get disappointed. *laughs* So, you can look forward to it, but you can also be quite wary of it."

[Anonymoose]

Are cure and sacrifice astral and thus fire, wind and lightning?

Once upon a time, yes. Cure has gone through many stages of elemental affinity over time. While it was water in previous games, and while spells like Raise, Protect, and Shell are still astral based in XIV (Fire 34%, Lightning 33%, Wind 33%), Cure and Sacrifice are now aligned to a 100% "neutral" element. (For the moment).

[Dreamer]

The black mage argument is just silly. Black mages ARE NOT ELEMENTALISTS. Unless you think that spells like poison, sleep, demi, toad, pig, death, etc are elemental somehow. The reason for having so many elemental spells in their repetoire is that elemental magic has been the primary type of spell damage throughout the series.

Also, if you're still going to make that argument, you can't do so while completely ignoring the fact that con also gets all of the 'traditional white mage spells' like the various cures and buffs.

The main issue is that people need to quit trying to pigeonhole conj and thm into white/black mages. Neither class was divided originally along those lines, and you can make a case for either class going either way. Personally, I think SE should just make it so that getting to level 30 in either class unlocks both.

[djjdiss]

The black mage argument is just silly. Black mages ARE NOT ELEMENTALISTS. Unless you think that spells like poison, sleep, demi, toad, pig, death, etc are elemental somehow. The reason for having so many elemental spells in their repetoire is that elemental magic has been the primary type of spell damage throughout the series.

Also, if you're still going to make that argument, you can't do so while completely ignoring the fact that con also gets all of the 'traditional white mage spells' like the various cures and buffs.

The main issue is that people need to quit trying to pigeonhole conj and thm into white/black mages. Neither class was divided originally along those lines, and you can make a case for either class going either way. Personally, I think SE should just make it so that getting to level 30 in either class unlocks both.

Then you just crapped on the entire idea of what class specific jobs are all about.

Yoshi already stated th class system is for solo play while the job system is for specific party roles, so yes, "pigeonholing" is in order. Live with it that's the FF way

[Anonymoose]

The black mage argument is just silly. Black mages ARE NOT ELEMENTALISTS. Unless you think that spells like poison, sleep, demi, toad, pig, death, etc are elemental somehow. The reason for having so many elemental spells in their repetoire is that elemental magic has been the primary type of spell damage throughout the series.

Also, if you're still going to make that argument, you can't do so while completely ignoring the fact that con also gets all of the 'traditional white mage spells' like the various cures and buffs.

The main issue is that people need to quit trying to pigeonhole conj and thm into white/black mages. Neither class was divided originally along those lines, and you can make a case for either class going either way. Personally, I think SE should just make it so that getting to level 30 in either class unlocks both.

You know those moments where you have that rush of excitement like, THANK GOD; SOMEONE GETS IT. The only problem now that we can't throw out those facts and call it a day. It's gonna happen: one IS going WHM and one IS going BLM. And while we could wait and sit around and see what happens... where's the fun in that?

So we come here and speculate, and then people show up who have opinions that are different than ours (and that's pretty frustrating), but then their opinions (that are already bad for being DIFFERENT than ours) also turn out to be based on FLIMSIER evidence than ours, which is just like SADFJASELIRJEAAAAAAARRAHARHAHRRRR. RAAAAAGE. And then you end up on page five yelling at people you don't know through a virtual anonymous medium while getting legitimately angry for reasons that should make you ashamed but don't. Rinse repeat!

[grandm]

You know those moments where you have that rush of excitement like, THANK GOD; SOMEONE GETS IT. The only problem now that we can't throw out those facts and call it a day. It's gonna happen: one IS going WHM and one IS going BLM. And while we could wait and sit around and see what happens... where's the fun in that?

So we come here and speculate, and then people show up who have opinions that are different than ours (and that's pretty frustrating), but then their opinions (that are already bad for being DIFFERENT than ours) also turn out to be based on FLIMSIER evidence than ours, which is just like SADFJASELIRJEAAAAAAARRAHARHAHRRRR. RAAAAAGE. And then you end up on page five yelling at people you don't know through a virtual anonymous medium while getting legitimately angry for reasons that should make you ashamed but don't. Rinse repeat!

lol so funny. but anyway least i now know the 12 and the primals are different. and i still think in 1.20 one caster will get holy and the other will get ultima. i don't think any will lose all there cure or all there nukes, as this will destroy there solo play

i also think my opinion is better than yours con for black :P lol

[Anonymoose]

i also think my opinion is better than yours con for black :P lol

I was saving this one for just in case the CNJ for BLM people cornered my other points (Buff v. Debuff, Benevolent v. Self-destructive, Radiance v. Damnation), but the thread is slowing down and there seems to be a SLIGHT tilt towards the mechanic/current-direction approach (CNJ=WHM) than the lore/history approach (CNJ=BLM) - so I guess I'll just go ahead and say it now:

So, if we restrict our search for evidence to changes we've seen to THM and CNJ since Team Yoshida completed their road map to 2.0:
The massive buffs to THM's offensive magic power were to prepare it for WHM?
And the overhaul to CNJ's healing/raising system were to prepare it for BLM?

/smugness

[Jim]

Ok Cnj got curaga, and curaga 2, while thm doesn't have any aoe healing, not to mention that cnj has most buffs and debuffs, thm has spells like poison and other asorted spells so we already have a blurry vision of which oone get the jobs buf SE has suprised us so many times well who knows. Lore would have it thought that thm is wht and cnj is blm.

[Answa]

I was saving this one for just in case the CNJ for BLM people cornered my other points (Buff v. Debuff, Benevolent v. Self-destructive, Radiance v. Damnation), but the thread is slowing down and there seems to be a SLIGHT tilt towards the mechanic/current-direction approach (CNJ=WHM) than the lore/history approach (CNJ=BLM) - so I guess I'll just go ahead and say it now:

So, if we restrict our search for evidence to changes we've seen to THM and CNJ since Team Yoshida completed their road map to 2.0:
The massive buffs to THM's offensive magic power were to prepare it for WHM?
And the overhaul to CNJ's healing/raising system were to prepare it for BLM?

/smugness

But, good sir, we've already addressed the inclusion of so many healing spells to CNJ. We already had Cure, etc. Why change it suddenly before the revamp? We're getting a good month+ to prepare ourselves mentally for a surprise concerning the revamps that are happening. This is the time to change the classes drastically.

[ereskigal]

But, good sir, we've already addressed the inclusion of so many healing spells to CNJ. We already had Cure, etc. Why change it suddenly before the revamp? We're getting a good month+ to prepare ourselves mentally for a surprise concerning the revamps that are happening. This is the time to change the classes drastically.

B/C the revamp is the change? There is nothing stoping them from just moving cures and buffs to thm and debuffs to CNJ. This infact would be Easier for the team, they don't have to touch the lore. Also why give thm AOE heals when you already know your going to give them curga later?