Gods and Jobs

[grandm]

D'awww. Good answer, lol.

I maintain, however, that this incarnation would not be a White Mage if it was about Life AND Death. White is attributed to purity - adding death and darkness to it, even only to balance and complement the light, would sully the whiteness. It'd be like... a gray mage. It's not my fault they're fluffy.

but there has been rumours of a second job in the future, so white for now life. and death to be a job of the future i don't knowwhat i can't really think of a job that would fit this other than dark knight but that don't seem to go with caster

[Demacia]

Oh man, people are gonna BLOW UP when they find out their 50 CON/THM got completely reworked. AS IT SHOULD BE.

[Anonymoose]

They're saying the lore taken by itself heavily favors THM->WHM and CNJ->BLM, which it does. You're saying the existing abilities (including animations, names, and descriptions) heavily favor THM->BLM and CNJ->WHM, which they do.

This is absolutely true as far as Lore vs. Mechanic - to stay true to Final Fantasy tradition, the elements would have to go to BLM (and not just destructive magic, which the point with BLM mechanics and could work with either class) and life energies would have to go to WHM (but we haven't seen much life, only death, from THM's lore so far).

CNJs seem to worship the elements by default for worshipping the ELEMENTALS, but what they're really worshipping is the Twelveswood and its guardians. They just happen to be elementally aspected and thus those elemental affinities just happen to be the basis of CNJ's offense. It doesn't really scream "destructive power through mastery of the spheres," to me - but you're right, it could work.

Mechanically speaking, though, they'd have to pull one hell of a role-reversal on both classes to make it work in 1.20 and I can't see them going for it. They might, but I'd be pretty surprised. People'd be pissed - much more pissed than if a storyline that was mostly disappearing and radically changing anyway was tweaked a bit.

but there has been rumours of a second job in the future, so white for now life. and death to be a job of the future i don't knowwhat i can't really think of a job that would fit this other than dark knight but that don't seem to go with caster

Eehhhhh, those "rumors" aren't based in ... anything, really. Yoshida-san was even asked flat-out if classes would get second jobs and he said they weren't planning for it but it'd be interesting. They wouldn't give WHM to THM under the contingency that they "Could add the dark side later" if they didn't ever plan on having the 2nd job at the time this decision was made. That'd be a paradox. I'm not saying it couldn't happen that way, I'm saying it wouldn't happen in this way in this order based on their plans and expressed intentions.

[zaviermhigo]

I don't see how people played THM all the way to 36 and did all three class quests, and didn't even get a hint that life and death are what we deal with. I believe the storyline would of evolved in the next 3 quests giving us quests that dealt with the light nature of our class also. I just can't stand people saying thm is dark, conj is light. they both have light and dark aspects, but when it comes to astral/umbral magic, that is purely thm, when it comes to elements that is purely cnj, scourge and banish may be 1/3 of each of their respective astral and umbral elements, but we just mixed that crap together to make dark or light, i don't think we like to fine tune out all the elements, those elements are weak sauce anyway...no want >.<. /endchildfit Having also played CNJ to 36 (wtf at 30 mission being all like " go to coerthas and a hamlet there" and if you did it pre chocobo you were like "AHKLFLKFJLKFJLKDFLKD", and then 36 is like "chill in grid, barely any walking".....-.-) THE THREE CLASS QUESTS FOR CNJ revolved around elements, elementals, weird wildlings taking by elementals, becoming a super awesome conj because of elementals.

Anyway you cut it, by gimping thm on healing and raising it does cut into an aspect of their lore that was hinted to. CNJ never hinted to healing, enhancing, or raising really...I found it quite odd. The nature of "money" for "death" where they do burial rights, sort of reminded me of japan and some other asian countries where they rely on Buddhism for burial (its not even burial lets call this funeral rite)rites, while not particularly being buddhist (some are but not as many as need the funeral rite.) While you could say "oh they profit off death" it could of been a story with loose ties to how Japan feels about their funeral rites in some way... with LL being Japan, and the THMs being Buddhist monks. Also Uldah is a greedy capitalistic place, they almost got me with their Capitalism spiel, i was like "how do they know I think Adam Smith is a God?!", but i was like naw I lived in Vegas for 9 years, that place is crappy. So I picked Gridania which is more like Hawaii to me (my birthplace). SO you could say THM care about money due to the nature of Uldah.

Catholic priests had money, lots of it, back in the day when being a king meant you were a "catholic prince", not saying THMS are catholic...I'm sure Ishgard has the obscure catholic religion thing down...but there are churches that pull in over a million dollars in donations a year. Just because they're money hungry doesn't mean that can't cure people, especially when you start thinking, where does Eorzea's magic come from, is it the aether, does the aether come from our Gods, or the primals, do I believe in our Gods? I mean they give me bonus exp on leves but other than that Idk. Magic is just philosophy but its not standard its in the eyes of the beholder, lore in my opinion is taking a back step. THM only has one class specific action period while they gave cnj a crap ton. at this point i welcome 1.20 rebalancing in anyway :/


TLDR: long nerd jack lore post what ifs, if you don't care don't read lol.

[Firon]

CNJ may worship elements but that does mean its nuking All spells are made up of elements. CON has lots of healing spells that deal with elements too. So don't be fooled just by the ele spells

[grandm]

CNJ may worship elements but that does mean its nuking All spells are made up of elements. CON has lots of healing spells that deal with elements too. So don't be fooled just by the ele spells

every blackmage i can think of gets fire/fire2/fire3. or fire/fira/firaga, when ppl say elemental i think this is what they are referring to

[Firon]

every blackmage i can think of gets fire/fire2/fire3. or fire/fira/firaga, when ppl say elemental i think this is what they are referring to

I understand that but ALL spells are composed of elements, So them not having nuking spells does not ruin their lore at all.

[grandm]

I understand that but ALL spells are composed of elements, So them not having nuking spells does not ruin their lore at all.

i can't say for sure i have not played either high enough to play the storyline. but from what i understand. CON is elemental in story. and this reminds ppl of blackmages using fire and such as that is elemental

i guess all i can say is :its elemental my dear Watson

[Wynn]

CNJ may worship elements but that does mean its nuking All spells are made up of elements. CON has lots of healing spells that deal with elements too. So don't be fooled just by the ele spells

Read ZavierMhigo's post. She explains very well how it is lore and storyline, not ability selection, that quite clearly dictates who is more like a BLM and who is more like a WHM.

[zaviermhigo]

Could someone tell me which element cure and such would be based off of? I thought cure and the enhancing spells at least pre patch 1.19 were just based on mag potency and mnd? I didn't think there was a specific element tied to them, kind of how sleep is umbral and poison is water. I know in other games Cure has been a wind spell I believe, I just didn't think if you put on a certain element's gear that it would effect cure in XIV specifically.

Are cure and sacrifice astral and thus fire, wind and lightning?