PVP changes from livestream.

[Sylvain]

Looking at the DRG example they used in the live letter, I can tell you 100% it's impossible for it to even come close to solo-ing a half decent healer now..

And how do you know?
Have you seen the healer tool kit and potency? You sound like all the WHM screaming they can just delete their job even though we have no clue what the WHM can do.
If you compare the 4.0 dragoon to 3.0 healer, yes you,re surely right.
But since 4.0 dragoon has almost all his skill potency reworked with some of them having new effects, like Piercing talon doing up to 4x damage against low hp target.
How can you be 100% sure that healer didn't receive some sever nerf?
Did you get to play? Do you have healers' potency and skill list?

Also, just by looking at the dragoon
SpineShatter Dive : 500 +50%
Nastrond : 3000
Piercing talon : 500 up to 2000
Wheeling Trust combo : last skill 1250 + 10% dmg for 18sec
Jump: 400 + 50% (that you can do every 4sec)


So, since Jump, Nastrond and Spineshatter are out of gcd, we can globally within that 2.5time frame of finishing the Wheeling trust combo do:
750 + 3000 + 1250 + 600 = 5600
if you add that 10% bonus from your combo that you should have had up while doing that, we get to 6160. (you can add 10% more litanny and 3% more from passive if you want)

And that's not considering the DoT or any damage previously dealt through your combo. We're just considering "unleashing all out of gcd skill + last combo"
So without any skill having more than 10sec cd, we can realistically burst 6500 within 2.5 which represents 50% of the melee dps health.
From memory I recall the healer in the party having 12500hp like the Dragoon
Assuming that Piercing talon scale lineary, we can then also deal at least another 1000 dmg. for a grand total of 7500
And if we fail to kill the target, we can actually redo the same thing 10-15sec later.

I don't know... unless healer will have 2000 potency spammable instant heal, which I highly doubt, being able to burst 2/3 of a healer healthpool in a small window seems fine to me.

I think you're missing the point. .

I think you missed his point, he was trolling by saying that "people seem to love having more skill, perhaps in 6.0 they'll be happy with 70 skill on their action bar"

[Kai_Lee]

I was being sarcastic, what i mean is the abilities bloat can get out of hand if SE just continue on their current trend. Its better to reform sooner then later.

[Zojha]

From memory I recall the healer in the party having 9500 hp.

As for healing vs damage potency... healing typically has considerably higher potency and end numbers than damage in this game. I'd expect the baseline heal to have around 3k potency with the new potency system, cooldowns anywhere between 3k and 5k, Regen effects around 1000-1500 per tick. And it's scarcely far fetched to assume they'll have their cooldowns reduced a lot as well.

Unless they do a full 180° turn on how they approach healers in content for the rework, I don't expect any severe nerf. Or any nerf, really. There's no precedent of such a direction (In terms of healing anyway) and from the HP they showcased (which is a clear relative buff compared to now), I think they're more likely to buff healers than nerf them.

[Koltik]

I think you missed his point, he was trolling by saying that "people seem to love having more skill, perhaps in 6.0 they'll be happy with 70 skill on their action bar"

Indeed!

10char

[SuperZay]

I come back two days ago and tried first time that feast mode and it is not active at all. With healer i manged get some games in the prime time, but even that take sometimes over 30min.

That's not true at all. If you look at Chaos Top 100 some people did over 700-1000 ranked matches this season which would be impossible with long wait times. And 8vs8 has less than 5 minute pops for months.

[Sylvain]

snip.

I edited my post with the HP part to stay consistent.


Well, current Healing has considerably higher potency.
Until the game is realesed we don't know.
If you expect the healers to have access to a 1500 hp/thick hot then I hope the dev working on the pvp system don't have your mindset, because giving healer a hot that can outheal any dps rotation will indeed make healer totally broken. Which is why I find your expectation a bit off. You're not expecting them to be hard to kill, you're expecting a healer to be able to whistand 3-4 dps just by using their basic heal+hot.

On the cooldown part, it's not like healers have a lot of cooldown in general. But I also expect spell like Essential dignity to be reduced to 10-15sec.

Unless they do a full 180° turn on how they approach healers in content for the rework, .

And again, how do you know they won't.
They drastically reworked dps in pvp, why wouldn't they drastically change Healing in pvp? They reworked the entire pvp system and you say "Unless they change the way the approach healers"? Isn't there a better time to expect them to change the way they approach Something?

If dps can't pop 50 cooldown to take down someone, it is safe to assume healer don't need as much potency to stay alive. They shouldn't receive more heal to heal less dmg.



Btw, I don't think a single dps should easily be able to take down a healer. Taking down a healer should require the work of 2 well sync dps or 3 dps.
At the same time, I don't believe a healer should be able to survive for an Extended period of time 2-3 dps.

[Mature]

I heard from several pvpers they actually like wolves den better then feast but lvl 50 pvp has less abilities but more enjoyable then lvl 60? Or should SE bump the next pvp mode to lvl 70 and give us 5-7 more abilities on top of what we already have? And then in 5.0 we can have even more abilities on top of the bloated abilities we currently have and in 6.0 even more abilities and everyone can enjoy pvping with 70-80 abilities. Becausethat sounds like fun.

But people doing feast don't use or do more than 1 rotation and it's a hide behind wall and button mashing. So I don't understand all this complaints about not having enough actions?

[Zojha]

And again, how do you know they won't.

How do you know they will?

It's a rhetorical question that goes both ways. Nobody knows, we're all just assuming - You included. And I expect the dev team to screw up the balance because they have a history of screwing up. I expect them to buff healers because healers are currently by far the least popular job in PvP and people were moaning about it being too hard. Moreover, they systematically under-tune healing requirements in their design throughout the entire game. And considering they weren't even considering synergy effects in PvE up until now, they more than likely will also fail to recognize the effects of CC in PvP.

I don't know what your optimism is based on, but those are my reasons to assume bad things coming. You can disagree, of course, but please stop saying:"BUT YOU DON'T KNOW!", because you don't know the opposite either. We all have to wait and see and dwell in our hopes and dreads until then.

[Moomba33]

Seems like SE is making a pretty big gamble with these dramatic changes. They risk alienating a lot of veterans by cutting down on their options but I guess they're hoping they'll bring in enough newcomers to make up for it. Only time will tell if the changes pay off.

As someone that's not big on PVP the biggest positive I see in all of this is with the new scaling system. Hopefully this will keep all PVP modes relevant instead of the queues only being alive for level cap ones.

[BloodRubyXII]

That's not true at all. If you look at Chaos Top 100 some people did over 700-1000 ranked matches this season which would be impossible with long wait times. And 8vs8 has less than 5 minute pops for months.

Some of them have multi-classed/queued for the job with the lowest time to fill. I could play that many games too if I queued as scholar all the time, but queue as any kind of ranged and you could be waiting 15-30 minutes as a queue. I'd say you'd be lucky to see 10 games a day and spend more time queueing for them than actually playing in them as a ranged, idk about tank/melee (I queued drk a few times and got 5-15min queues). If I recall you predominantly played tank before? So your queues are kinda short. Could be wrong, I stopped queueing mid-april because I went back to work and I didn't feel like spending most of my evening to queue for 2 or 3 matches (and I'm fairly sure I'm already safe on Elemental); and I do remember you not queueing a large amount at the time; so IDR what you play. But the point is if you work full time or school or something, remembering that queues don't really start before like 1-2PM and are dead by 11 on most days, you are lucky to play a few games a day.


I mean just going down the list, Haki queues nonstop, even if he has to wait ages. And he is on literally every day and most of every day, I don't even think he works lol. Yuni is a healer. Livie is a tank. Makenshi is a healer. Mikasa? Also a healer. And a really active one too. Male XIII - also a healer, Commander Justitia - tank that has also queued as filler healer. Do you see where I'm going for this, sure, you can get 700+ games if you queue literally every day whilst queues are live as a healer. I mean I see your point because Sunako is queueing healer, but even then it can be dead and -is- dead outside of prime regardless of what you queue as. If there is only one other healer in queue too then yeah, I'm not surprised they're getting 30 min queues as you're essentially waiting for them if they take a break.

Also take into account most of those healers queued from the first early part of s4 when literally anyone could get games quick. Loads of people are sitting now too since 2200 is pmuch safe.