PVP changes from livestream.

[itsoni]

There's two main reactions about this change.

1) It's absolutely horrible and takes away what differentiates "Brilliant" players from "Good" players. Through careful OGCD/GCD usage and some teamwork going on with a bit of common sense, you can swing a match in your favour. Now they're taking away so much, it'll be a miracle if things actually die before culling 5 (purely dependent on the healer PvP actions) and if the fights are even half as entertaining/engaging (spoiler: they wont be). Spamming 1111/222 until you get to press an extra button every 15 seconds isn't engaging at all. It feels like it's catered to the "casual" players that are stuck in Bronze/Silver and can't perform a full rotation correctly.

This sentiment is shared with the actual core PvP playerbase in this game who have played their fair share of matches and have a good understanding of how to win.

2) It's great because now I can finally be great at PvP and everything will finally work out for me! It's this whole games' combat system in PvP that was holding me back the entire time, it wasn't my fault at all! Now that they're got rid of the secret sauce only the few hundred core PvP players were using, we'll all be able do the same thing and I'll get my deserved spot in the rankings! Amazing!

This sentiment is mostly shared with the players who aren't actually at a "True Diamond" skill level. 90% of these players are probably stuck somewhere between Bronze - Gold.

The reason I say "True Diamond" is because anybody can just easily get Diamond now. The highest rank in the game isn't an achievement anymore if someone with a 40% win rate can get it.

Final Note

This all being said, reducing bloat is a good thing but not at the expense of pruning your game mode until it's as brainless as spamming a handful of buttons. I would say at least add a few extra PvP abilities in.

Looking at the DRG example they used in the live letter, I can tell you 100% it's impossible for it to even come close to solo-ing a half decent healer now. Removing such damage potential from a Job makes it stale and boring. For those that doubt me, I know you'll agree the day you're playing and your co-dps is spamming 1 combo all game on the wrong targets. You won't be able to kill a single thing.

If anything, they need to be more transparent with this and show us all the abilities/actions for each job in PvP, especially healer actions. We'll be able to know seeing the potencies/actions what changes need to be made.

[abbas]

Looking at the DRG example they used in the live letter, I can tell you 100% it's impossible for it to even come close to solo-ing a half decent healer now. Removing such damage potential from a Job makes it stale and boring. For those that doubt me, I know you'll agree the day you're playing and your co-dps is spamming 1 combo all game on the wrong targets. You won't be able to kill a single thing.

can only kill with limit break!.. oh wait.. melee won't have stun to do accurate lb anymore..

[Mefa]

Well.. As I'm 99,99% sure I can't enjoy new PvP at all. I don't like casual stuff. I made a suggestion for PvE changes to make PvP players interested other stuff and keep playing FFXIV.

Go check it out : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...59#post4153759

As myself. I've been playing PvP in dozens of different games over a decade and even been paid to go play some game and balance PvP. I talk as experienced PvP Player and these changes are not made for MMORPG. If FFXIV tries to create in-game minigame DotA, they should create it very well and invest huge money to make it work.

[Caitlyn]

I m gonna play it, no matter what. I m very curious how good/bad PvP will be with Stormblood >: D

can only kill with limit break!.. oh wait.. melee won't have stun to do accurate lb anymore..

Thank god.

[SuperZay]

can only kill with limit break!.. oh wait.. melee won't have stun to do accurate lb anymore..

They can always add to The Feast ice spawns to fix that problem. 1 small ice worth 50 points and big ice is 75 points so you don't need to fight actual people to win.

[Moonlite]

can only kill with limit break!.. oh wait.. melee won't have stun to do accurate lb anymore..

You do know with the new system they can easily adjust damage and healing. Not to mention we don't know what actual skills healers have. They said games are faster. I expect that healers are seriously clipped from what they are now. Controlled gear, controlled skills, and controlled pvp abilities. Will this be fun is unknown. But I wouldn't be surprised if you almost never see culling time. Or that it is balanced that it is impossible to keep one person up when focused with one culling.

[Zojha]

I expect that healers are seriously clipped from what they are now.

I doubt that. I very much doubt that in fact - Not only are healers the least affected by skill pruning, SE also received a lot of feedback of healing being "too hard" in PvP. Moreover, CC seems to be less prevalent with stormblood. I wouldn't be surprised if kills against competent healers end up completely impossible unless coordinating two LBs with the tanks CC.

It's the same dev team that asks us to pull carefully in Xelphatol because the dungeon is dangerous. The same dev team that did not foresee Holy being used to AoE in dungeons. The same dev team that did not foresee nor understand the DPS meta resulting from their tank/healer tuning. The same dev team that just yesterday admitted on Stream that they did not take party DPS contribution into account so far when balancing jobs. How much faith can you have?

I wholly expect them to screw it up big time.

[Sylvain]

Looking at the DRG example they used in the live letter, I can tell you 100% it's impossible for it to even come close to solo-ing a half decent healer now..

And how do you know?
Have you seen the healer tool kit and potency? You sound like all the WHM screaming they can just delete their job even though we have no clue what the WHM can do.
If you compare the 4.0 dragoon to 3.0 healer, yes you,re surely right.
But since 4.0 dragoon has almost all his skill potency reworked with some of them having new effects, like Piercing talon doing up to 4x damage against low hp target.
How can you be 100% sure that healer didn't receive some sever nerf?
Did you get to play? Do you have healers' potency and skill list?

Also, just by looking at the dragoon
SpineShatter Dive : 500 +50%
Nastrond : 3000
Piercing talon : 500 up to 2000
Wheeling Trust combo : last skill 1250 + 10% dmg for 18sec
Jump: 400 + 50% (that you can do every 4sec)


So, since Jump, Nastrond and Spineshatter are out of gcd, we can globally within that 2.5time frame of finishing the Wheeling trust combo do:
750 + 3000 + 1250 + 600 = 5600
if you add that 10% bonus from your combo that you should have had up while doing that, we get to 6160. (you can add 10% more litanny and 3% more from passive if you want)

And that's not considering the DoT or any damage previously dealt through your combo. We're just considering "unleashing all out of gcd skill + last combo"
So without any skill having more than 10sec cd, we can realistically burst 6500 within 2.5 which represents 50% of the melee dps health.
From memory I recall the healer in the party having 12500hp like the Dragoon
Assuming that Piercing talon scale lineary, we can then also deal at least another 1000 dmg. for a grand total of 7500
And if we fail to kill the target, we can actually redo the same thing 10-15sec later.

I don't know... unless healer will have 2000 potency spammable instant heal, which I highly doubt, being able to burst 2/3 of a healer healthpool in a small window seems fine to me.

I think you're missing the point. .

I think you missed his point, he was trolling by saying that "people seem to love having more skill, perhaps in 6.0 they'll be happy with 70 skill on their action bar"

[Zojha]

From memory I recall the healer in the party having 9500 hp.

As for healing vs damage potency... healing typically has considerably higher potency and end numbers than damage in this game. I'd expect the baseline heal to have around 3k potency with the new potency system, cooldowns anywhere between 3k and 5k, Regen effects around 1000-1500 per tick. And it's scarcely far fetched to assume they'll have their cooldowns reduced a lot as well.

Unless they do a full 180° turn on how they approach healers in content for the rework, I don't expect any severe nerf. Or any nerf, really. There's no precedent of such a direction (In terms of healing anyway) and from the HP they showcased (which is a clear relative buff compared to now), I think they're more likely to buff healers than nerf them.

[Sylvain]

snip.

I edited my post with the HP part to stay consistent.


Well, current Healing has considerably higher potency.
Until the game is realesed we don't know.
If you expect the healers to have access to a 1500 hp/thick hot then I hope the dev working on the pvp system don't have your mindset, because giving healer a hot that can outheal any dps rotation will indeed make healer totally broken. Which is why I find your expectation a bit off. You're not expecting them to be hard to kill, you're expecting a healer to be able to whistand 3-4 dps just by using their basic heal+hot.

On the cooldown part, it's not like healers have a lot of cooldown in general. But I also expect spell like Essential dignity to be reduced to 10-15sec.

Unless they do a full 180° turn on how they approach healers in content for the rework, .

And again, how do you know they won't.
They drastically reworked dps in pvp, why wouldn't they drastically change Healing in pvp? They reworked the entire pvp system and you say "Unless they change the way the approach healers"? Isn't there a better time to expect them to change the way they approach Something?

If dps can't pop 50 cooldown to take down someone, it is safe to assume healer don't need as much potency to stay alive. They shouldn't receive more heal to heal less dmg.



Btw, I don't think a single dps should easily be able to take down a healer. Taking down a healer should require the work of 2 well sync dps or 3 dps.
At the same time, I don't believe a healer should be able to survive for an Extended period of time 2-3 dps.