PVP changes from livestream.

[Mefa]

You really compare MMORPG PvP and MOBA? Same you would compare FFXIV and The Sims.. "You can decorate in both.." MOBAs are based on huge amount of different characters and the skills with passives makes them interesting. There you buy items during battle to make yourself different. There are 200 champions to choose from. To make this MOBA, imagine lvl 1 champions w/o items and flash. Game would die in 4 months. P.S. Long time D1/Master player


I like when you guys talk about the skills, but there is more use for them now than just "1x combo +3/4 others." As PLD I use every skill and cross-class skills but Provoke. Yes - even the Flash for 3-20 times per match. I started this game roughly 2 months ago and I use my main jobs' all skills in PvP (WAR, PLD, DRK, MNK). How bad player can be if can't use own main class that has been played for a year example? XD

[Sunako]

I come back two days ago and tried first time that feast mode and it is not active at all. With healer i manged get some games in the prime time, but even that take sometimes over 30min. In the morning you have no hope get que at all. Not all players have multiple jobs leveled and most of them want to play with their main class even in pvp. We need changes for this make pvp more active. We have nothing to lose at this point. Even if you like current pvp 90% time in queue can not bring any good gameplay exprience. Every game mode have been active first weeks, but then it die very soon. That tell players try the game modes at first, but it is not good enough stay there. Only reason why players play pvp in this game is some like of mounts, but not actual pvp what I heard. We need the game mode where players can actually enjoy pvp and stay there for reason pvp is fun and not forcegrind aesthetic mounts.

Separating pvp and pve skills is imo good start making pvp balance better. 9 buttons is probably overkill, but can not judge before you can actually test how it works and there is always chance we get more skills in the future.

[Mirch]

I come back two days ago and tried first time that feast mode and it is not active at all. With healer i manged get some games in the prime time, but even that take sometimes over 30min. In the morning you have no hope get que at all. Not all players have multiple jobs leveled and most of them want to play with their main class even in pvp. We need changes for this make pvp more active. We have nothing to lose at this point. Even if you like current pvp 90% time in queue can not bring any good gameplay exprience.

it does pop from afternoon to latenight, also depends on your current tier.

they havent say anything about the matchmakings?like new changes or sumthing btw?

[Sylvain]

Yea, but I doubt they will put time into balancing and fixing the issues with this new system. They never did in the past.

of course they didn't. PVP was such in a poor state that you'd be insane as a game developper to screw up PVE by trying to balance PVP.


Now, both system are totally separated. People should stop being salty, they finally splitted PVP and PVE skill, which means that they'll finally be able to adress any pvp balance issue without fearing affecting the PVE.
Your melee are too squishy? give them more hp. Ninja have trouble finishing off a target? Well boost a few skills, SMN DoT and run dominate the meta, well nurf the dots.
They could never do that with the old system.

I don't even understand how people cannot be happy about these changes.
PVP is a totally different beast than PVE, you cannot realistically hope to have both be balanced with the same Tools.
PVP is supposed to be unpredictable and reactive. PVP is not about doing a pve rotation with 6 buffs 3 debuff and 3 differnet combo trees.
Just take the freaking BLM, how can you hope to make that enjoyable in PVP? (I'm actually curious because Yoshida said BLM had one of the biggest change, without surprised)

Did people actually take look at the dragoon various jump cooldown and the offensive one TP cost?
They're short, they're not 90sec. The dmg jump had a 5sec CD with 500TP cost, which totally change the way you use the skill.
How is concentrating your combo into two skills a bad thing, spamming 12341234 isn't harder, it's just more annoying and take more space.
I however do agree that the absence of CC, stuns etc is a bit worisome. We'll have to see how it plays out. But still, if the game will need the introduction of some CC, it's not like it'll be hard for them to add another skill. They also pointed that some job had 10 which means they don't even have UI restrictions (like, only 9 skills would fit for instance)
You basically make it more accessible to new player and let's face it, PVP is in dire need of new players.

What. What. No more dps burst? .

You'll have pvp burst but not as a "activate all your +20% dps buff" form, more as an active form.
We've only seen the dragoon but his dps jump and spear lance were the two only skill with a TP cost, (500 for jump, 100 for spear).
The jump had a 5sec CD (or close from it). Which means that if you properly time some out of GCD skills, like Geirskogul (my guess is that the red form will do even more dmg), + jump with your dps combo finisher you'll probably be able to remove a good chunk of someone's health.
And since these won't have 30-60sec CD, it won't be a hit or miss scenario. If the target survive, according to the time it took him to reach that red Geriskogul, you'll quickly be able to do the same burst without needing 4-5 90sec buff

EDIT: or is the potency the actual damage? o_O

From what I've seen from the video, these are indeed the "average" damage. +- some %.
Pretty neat imo, you can easily calculate how much dmg you can dish out

[Stormfur]

In choosing the traits/abilities, there's going to be a best build no matter what. I don't know why developers try to give the illusion of choice.

[Korihu]

PVP was such in a poor state that you'd be insane as a game developper to screw up PVE by trying to balance PVP.


Now, both system are totally separated. People should stop being salty, they finally splitted PVP and PVE skill, which means that they'll finally be able to adress any pvp balance issue without fearing affecting the PVE.
Your melee are too squishy? give them more hp. Ninja have trouble finishing off a target? Well boost a few skills, SMN DoT and run dominate the meta, well nurf the dots.

But didn't they balance some skills to work differently in PvP anyway, completely unaffecting PvE? Such as Noctournal Sect shields being a lot weaker, SMN Deathflare being nerfed, CC effects lasting for a different amount of time, some additional effects not ocurring in PvP (such as Miasma not applying Heavy). It's funny you mention that "SMN dot and ruin the meta, they can nerf the dot", because didn't all the dots get nerfed too? Wait didn't they buff Ninjas as well? Am I misreading the post? Excuse me if I am.




I'm not disagreeing that the complete separation is good, I'm just confused about the point there. Besides I think people are not concerned about the separation, and more concerned about the low number of skills being available.

[Koltik]

I'm not disagreeing that the complete separation is good, I'm just confused about the point there. Besides I think people are not concerned about the separation, and more concerned about the low number of skills being available.

It's a lot more feasible to balance 15-20 abilities per class rather than 35-40.

[Sylvain]

snipe

I actually forgot they did those fix so good point.

Btw, if you looked at the other post with the description of all the dragoon skill (I'm sure you did), we can see that they reworked many skill to be totally different, like one doing up to 400% dmg the less hp the target has. This is another thing that could bring some more depth beyond the 9 skills.

I realise that people are concerned about the number of skills, but having many skills does not equal complexity.
They condensed 8 skills into 2.You're not doing more with 8 skills spread accross 8 different keybind. Some for some Blood of dragon which turns into Geriskogul which then turns into.. "red geriskogul".

I mean, if we split everything, the Dragoon for instance has 6 active, 8 combo skills, 1 buff turning into two 2skills and 2 choosable. That's 19 skills.
What do you honestly miss? Your 10 60-90sec CD dps buff that you'll stack over each other? Your two aoe skills? Your DoT? That 15% dmg buff you have to keep?
These are the things that will ruins pvp?
Having totally unique pvp mechanic is turns out to be useless, boring and uninteresting if you loose that 10% dmg increase for 15% every 90sec?

I don't say that "worrying about having only 9 skills" is stupid, but saying that "having only 9 skill will destroy the pvp, GG SE" is stupid. The point the other person made with moba was just to point that fewer skills doesn't mean less complexity. GW2 for instance doesn't have that many skills usuble at one time and still has a lot of depth.

No one has tried the new pvp system, we don't know how it will play out.
I honestly doubt these change will hurt the state of the game. Retailoring every job action to fit pvp is unlikely to worsen a pvp game using pve mechanic.

Oh and, it seems they reduced the gcd. I wasn't sure when I saw the video but someone actually timed it. it seems to be 2.3 Baseline. reduced to 2.18 on the dragoon.

[Kai_Lee]

I heard from several pvpers they actually like wolves den better then feast but lvl 50 pvp has less abilities but more enjoyable then lvl 60? Or should SE bump the next pvp mode to lvl 70 and give us 5-7 more abilities on top of what we already have? And then in 5.0 we can have even more abilities on top of the bloated abilities we currently have and in 6.0 even more abilities and everyone can enjoy pvping with 70-80 abilities. Becausethat sounds like fun.

[Koltik]

I heard from several pvpers they actually like wolves den better then feast but lvl 50 pvp has less abilities but more enjoyable then lvl 60? Or should SE bump the next pvp mode to lvl 70 and give us 5-7 more abilities on top of what we already have? And then in 5.0 we can have even more abilities on top of the bloated abilities we currently have and in 6.0 even more abilities and everyone can enjoy pvping with 70-80 abilities. Becausethat sounds like fun.

I think you're missing the point. They're scaling all of PvP equally, so in theory all current and future PvP modes will have players capped the same. There will be no more level 50 cap, 60 cap, etc. issues because we are all synced equally with the same abilities whenever we are in any sort of PvP.