PVP changes from livestream.

[Sylvain]

Looking at the DRG example they used in the live letter, I can tell you 100% it's impossible for it to even come close to solo-ing a half decent healer now..

And how do you know?
Have you seen the healer tool kit and potency? You sound like all the WHM screaming they can just delete their job even though we have no clue what the WHM can do.
If you compare the 4.0 dragoon to 3.0 healer, yes you,re surely right.
But since 4.0 dragoon has almost all his skill potency reworked with some of them having new effects, like Piercing talon doing up to 4x damage against low hp target.
How can you be 100% sure that healer didn't receive some sever nerf?
Did you get to play? Do you have healers' potency and skill list?

Also, just by looking at the dragoon
SpineShatter Dive : 500 +50%
Nastrond : 3000
Piercing talon : 500 up to 2000
Wheeling Trust combo : last skill 1250 + 10% dmg for 18sec
Jump: 400 + 50% (that you can do every 4sec)


So, since Jump, Nastrond and Spineshatter are out of gcd, we can globally within that 2.5time frame of finishing the Wheeling trust combo do:
750 + 3000 + 1250 + 600 = 5600
if you add that 10% bonus from your combo that you should have had up while doing that, we get to 6160. (you can add 10% more litanny and 3% more from passive if you want)

And that's not considering the DoT or any damage previously dealt through your combo. We're just considering "unleashing all out of gcd skill + last combo"
So without any skill having more than 10sec cd, we can realistically burst 6500 within 2.5 which represents 50% of the melee dps health.
From memory I recall the healer in the party having 12500hp like the Dragoon
Assuming that Piercing talon scale lineary, we can then also deal at least another 1000 dmg. for a grand total of 7500
And if we fail to kill the target, we can actually redo the same thing 10-15sec later.

I don't know... unless healer will have 2000 potency spammable instant heal, which I highly doubt, being able to burst 2/3 of a healer healthpool in a small window seems fine to me.

I think you're missing the point. .

I think you missed his point, he was trolling by saying that "people seem to love having more skill, perhaps in 6.0 they'll be happy with 70 skill on their action bar"

[Zojha]

From memory I recall the healer in the party having 9500 hp.

As for healing vs damage potency... healing typically has considerably higher potency and end numbers than damage in this game. I'd expect the baseline heal to have around 3k potency with the new potency system, cooldowns anywhere between 3k and 5k, Regen effects around 1000-1500 per tick. And it's scarcely far fetched to assume they'll have their cooldowns reduced a lot as well.

Unless they do a full 180° turn on how they approach healers in content for the rework, I don't expect any severe nerf. Or any nerf, really. There's no precedent of such a direction (In terms of healing anyway) and from the HP they showcased (which is a clear relative buff compared to now), I think they're more likely to buff healers than nerf them.

[Sylvain]

snip.

I edited my post with the HP part to stay consistent.


Well, current Healing has considerably higher potency.
Until the game is realesed we don't know.
If you expect the healers to have access to a 1500 hp/thick hot then I hope the dev working on the pvp system don't have your mindset, because giving healer a hot that can outheal any dps rotation will indeed make healer totally broken. Which is why I find your expectation a bit off. You're not expecting them to be hard to kill, you're expecting a healer to be able to whistand 3-4 dps just by using their basic heal+hot.

On the cooldown part, it's not like healers have a lot of cooldown in general. But I also expect spell like Essential dignity to be reduced to 10-15sec.

Unless they do a full 180° turn on how they approach healers in content for the rework, .

And again, how do you know they won't.
They drastically reworked dps in pvp, why wouldn't they drastically change Healing in pvp? They reworked the entire pvp system and you say "Unless they change the way the approach healers"? Isn't there a better time to expect them to change the way they approach Something?

If dps can't pop 50 cooldown to take down someone, it is safe to assume healer don't need as much potency to stay alive. They shouldn't receive more heal to heal less dmg.



Btw, I don't think a single dps should easily be able to take down a healer. Taking down a healer should require the work of 2 well sync dps or 3 dps.
At the same time, I don't believe a healer should be able to survive for an Extended period of time 2-3 dps.

[Zojha]

And again, how do you know they won't.

How do you know they will?

It's a rhetorical question that goes both ways. Nobody knows, we're all just assuming - You included. And I expect the dev team to screw up the balance because they have a history of screwing up. I expect them to buff healers because healers are currently by far the least popular job in PvP and people were moaning about it being too hard. Moreover, they systematically under-tune healing requirements in their design throughout the entire game. And considering they weren't even considering synergy effects in PvE up until now, they more than likely will also fail to recognize the effects of CC in PvP.

I don't know what your optimism is based on, but those are my reasons to assume bad things coming. You can disagree, of course, but please stop saying:"BUT YOU DON'T KNOW!", because you don't know the opposite either. We all have to wait and see and dwell in our hopes and dreads until then.

[Moomba33]

Seems like SE is making a pretty big gamble with these dramatic changes. They risk alienating a lot of veterans by cutting down on their options but I guess they're hoping they'll bring in enough newcomers to make up for it. Only time will tell if the changes pay off.

As someone that's not big on PVP the biggest positive I see in all of this is with the new scaling system. Hopefully this will keep all PVP modes relevant instead of the queues only being alive for level cap ones.

[Sylvain]

How do you know they will?

I have no freaking clue! But the game steadily improved over time, patch after patch. And I'm expecting it to keep improving.
They obviously invested a lot of time and thought in this new system. Being worried is a thing, calling it broken before launch is another.
For fuck sake, we don't even know what everyjob can do. We just know dragoons...

I'm actually expecting that the team working on PVP has thought about these things and balanced this stuff a little better than what you proposed with your 2000 hots and 5000 heal. You're not concerned about 3-4% unbalanced gameplay here...

The number you've guess are so gruesome that they don't even make sens. I actually took the time to look at what the DRG can do and made some guess according to that and what would make sens. A healer able to overheal a dps with 1 single hot only isn't a balance scenario and doesn't make any sens. Nor does the ability to spam 5000hp skill. Does it make sens for a healer, with all his tools, to be able to overheal a single dps? I believe yes, 2 dps, perhaps if they're not unleashing everything at the same time. Does it make sens for a healer to be able to whistand 4-5 dps? well... maybe not.

Concerning the CC in PvP I share some of your concern too, but again, I won't make any doomday claim until the game is released.
Maybe they tried giving 1 stun to dps and realised it did more harm than good, which is why only tank (with probably lower dps than melee) will be the stunning player.
You sound like all the WHM on the healing forum, they're all about to commit seppuku.
I'm not saying it will be fantastic and super balance on day one, happy butterfly and rainbow unicorn stuff.

But I believe the core change they did will improve the state of PvP by allowing more players to dive in it.
PvP is currently overwhelming, and if your reply is "but they dont take the time to learn it", well possibly, but if the vast majority of player don't wanna take the time to learn it because "it's overwhelming". Then perhaps they should do something to adresse the issue, and this is what they did.

And btw, to everyone valuing pvp in FF14, when it get released, you guys should make constructive feedback on what to improve, why it doesn't work and what could be done (realistically)to adress the issue.
Because if there's something people are good at on forum, it's to complain everything is broken without even saying what is (which obviously is immensly helpful to the dev). The devs do read our feedback, the removal of the casting time on bard and mach are a proof. When you hear Yoshida speaking, you can see that he's aware of many of the current issue.

[Zojha]

I'm actually expecting that the team working on PVP has thought about these things and balanced this stuff a little better than what you proposed with your 1000-1500 hots and 5000 heal. You're not concerned about 3-4% unbalanced gameplay here...

Turns out I wasn't even far off...

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/002069.html

Cost sounds hefty, but if I recall correctly, so did the TP costs of DPS skills.

Yep, still concerned. Open questions include the amount of manareg and potencies/TP costs of other skills. So far, it bodes ill.

[Koltik]

I think you missed his point, he was trolling by saying that "people seem to love having more skill, perhaps in 6.0 they'll be happy with 70 skill on their action bar"

Indeed!

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