cross roll system and issues on some jobs

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Well said Tharne.

Thinking in terms of my static, I (the main healer) can take something besides Protect because usually, my co-healer casts protect while I Stoneskin the party. In areas where I don't need Esuna, I can slot something else, or perhaps our SMN can.

It's all a matter of versatility. Create the build that works best for you and your party. People wanted a little more flexibility, and now we're getting it. I see nothing wrong here.

[Hamada]

We dont know the potencies yet. They took away alot of skills that tanks had and even adjusted some and made them cross role. But we will find out on the 16th

They also said that is not the final version, maybe they wanted to see what players think before they release a disaster?

Well said Tharne.

Thinking in terms of my static, I (the main healer) can take something besides Protect because usually, my co-healer casts protect while I Stoneskin the party. In areas where I don't need Esuna, I can slot something else, or perhaps our SMN can.

It's all a matter of versatility. Create the build that works best for you and your party. People wanted a little more flexibility, and now we're getting it. I see nothing wrong here.

You are looking at it though a static point of view, people you know, that is an issue. The reason they made this system to begin with is to make it more user friendly. This does not achieve that, and if we need to continuously change out esuna and protect during a DF, you are going to see a lot less people running healers because some do not want to deal with that annoyance while they play something else that they find more fun. (and casuals will not like being told to do so)

This is not more flexibility and customization, all it is doing is shifting the illusion of choice we have currently. Once you have a supposed "custom system" such as this turn into pick this to be optimal or get kicked, such a system is a back turner to most of the player base. Systems like this you need to be truly picking abilities that are optional, protect, esuna, Invigorate, provoke, for starters are BASELINE and a NEED. If Invigorate is going to be MORE of a need for some then others, then that is a class balance issue ( needing too much tp to aoe for example)

In other words, agreeing with this well worded post:

Personally I think this whole change is going to backfire hilariously.

I mean, think about it: SE has stated they want to (a) reduce button bloat, and (b) make the system more accessible / usable for casual players. Laudable goals, both, assuming they can be effectively achieved. But, it is arguable the nature of the role-based system might worsen both. Consider:

1.) Role-based skills are broad enough that it appears frequent swapping between skill combinations is encouraged. This means that users must integrate most or all of the Role-based skills onto their hotbars, rather than just the five I'd use now, all of which are relatively static.

2.) Role-based skills being flexible and guaranteed means the floodgates will be opened for players being told how to play. Think that situation is bad now? Wait until tanks start bitching at healers for not having Esuna selected. Wait until people wipe because the tank forgot to respec from a damage-oriented setup they were using for solo'ing. This isn't going to lead to a friendlier environment for casual or forgetful players.

Don't get me wrong, I think the role-based skill system is potentially a good idea - but it doesn't fix the problem. They've essentially removed the need to level other jobs, but shifted even MORE crucial abilities into optional skills. Healers in 3.x need to have Swiftcast, but now they need to make damned sure they've selected Esuna, too - and heaven help them if they don't. This would have worked a hell of a lot better if the role-based skills were optional things that gave non-crucial, but nonetheless useful, abilities. They should have behaved like Merit Point abilities in FFXI. Hell, they could have even allowed for the selection of a role-based Trait or two, something powerful, so people could really customize how their class felt. Instead, they've worsened almost all the problems of the cross-class system; the only thing they fixed (and it's debatable if this is a good thing or not) is the fact that players no longer have to level separate jobs they might not be interested in.

Truly a missed opportunity.

[Tharne]

Systems like this you need to be truly picking abilities that are optional, protect, esuna, Invigorate, provoke, for starters are BASELINE and a NEED. If Invigorate is going to be MORE of a need for some then others, then that is a class balance issue ( needing too much tp to aoe for example)

Then if you think that you need them, just pick them, that's the point of the system. The system is not : "Hey I can have those 5 situational skills, but I don't want to take any so I'm gonna play with 5 less skills.", those skills are not suppose to be optional but situational, it's two different things, you should always use the maximum amount of them available to you based on your level but you should adapt them based on your need in the current content. If a healer knows that he won't need Esuna during an entire dungeon why should he have a useless skill ? Same for a Tank doing solo content and Provoke ? Those are not a need in all situation.

[Hamada]

Then if you think that you need them, just pick them, that's the point of the system. The system is not : "Hey I can have those 5 situational skills, but I don't want to take any so I'm gonna play with 5 less skills.", those skills are not suppose to be optional but situational, it's two different things, you should always use the maximum amount of them available to you based on your level but you should adapt them based on your need in the current content. If a healer knows that he won't need Esuna during an entire dungeon why should he have a useless skill ? Same for a Tank doing solo content and Provoke ? Those are not a need in all situation.

I do not understand, people supporting in a flawed system. If the final system is no one having provoke/esuna/protect as baseline and everyone has to continuously change these abilities out, you have a worse system then now. provoke/esuna/protect are NOT situational and SHOULD NOT be put on a list of pick 5. they are baseline abilities in every flippin FF game ill FXIV 4.0 apparently.

[Tharne]

I do not understand, people supporting in a flawed system. If the final system is no one having provoke/esuna/protect as baseline and everyone has to continuously change these abilities out, you have a worse system then now.

You consider it a flawed system, I don't since I prefer having the choice to use a skill useful in the content I am in and then switch it for another when I go do something else.

[Fawkes]

There's no benefit in this new system for bringing esuna when there's nothing to cleanse, so all the system does is give you the chance to make a mistake.

[Tharne]

provoke/esuna/protect are NOT situational and SHOULD NOT be put on a list of pick 5. they are baseline abilities in every flippin FF game ill FXIV 4.0 apparently.

Who has provoke/esuna/protect or something similar being baseline in FFVII / VIII or XII for exemple ? Materia, Draw and Licence are optionals, if you don't want to play with Esuna you have that choice.

And sorry but yes, Provoke is situational and Esuna is also situational. Protect is not except when you have two healers as this will free a skill for the one that didn't picked it which is good.

[Neophyte]

provoke/esuna/protect are NOT situational and SHOULD NOT be put on a list of pick 5. they are baseline abilities in every flippin FF game ill FXIV 4.0 apparently.

And in quite every FF they're either optional taken and replaced again if you want to or the whole character who has it itself get's swapped out (which makes them again optional).

FF14 now is basically the only Final Fantasy were you have access to protect and Esuna all the time without switching something out, because right now you never, ever have a better alternative than just to have protect selected. Never, ever, every group has 2 protect-casters now for 100% the time.
In SB there will be occassion were there will be good alternatives in certain situations.

So, if anything, this change makes FF14 more fibal fantasy'ish.

The most important thing is if they alzered protect anyway. If they changed it to a x seconds def+ buff for the group then this discussion is stupid anyway. And we don't know if they have.
This only 30 min buff is awkward anyway.

[ErryK]

I do not understand, people supporting in a flawed system. If the final system is no one having provoke/esuna/protect as baseline and everyone has to continuously change these abilities out, you have a worse system then now. provoke/esuna/protect are NOT situational and SHOULD NOT be put on a list of pick 5. they are baseline abilities in every flippin FF game ill FXIV 4.0 apparently.

If they're not optional, use Provoke on all your tanks, and Esuna+Protect on all your healers. Quit whining if you're saying they're not optional when you have the ability to use them anyways.

[Hamada]

I see you in a month when there is 10+ threads of complaints on this system if they do not change anything. They did say may not be the final product though, hope that ends up being true.