Are role actions a nerf?

[SendohJin]

Losing Blizzard 2?! That's a huge pvp nerf to schs that they didn't need!

you need to check the entire PvP portion of the Live Letter.

but they took thing a step further and took actual useful skills from jobs for no reason other than they cool this is just not cool to me

all the things they took are things that every one of the jobs in that role should be able to do. like Provoke, Goad, Esuna, that's a very good reason.

[OcieKo]

you need to check the entire PvP portion of the Live Letter.

all the things they took are things that every one of the jobs in that role should be able to do. like Provoke, Goad, Esuna, that's a very good reason.

Like he said here, the pvp skill set will be vastly different from what we know, and this new system will have like no interaction with it. From what it seems like, most classes will keep base rotations and vital skills amounting to 9, 2 chosen skills, and 2 traits. For about 13 skills during pvp.

Healers will most like have basic heal, aoe heal, unique heal, and a badic dmg skill of sorts.

So SCH your lookin at Physick, Succor, Adloq, Boil being your basic kit, if all 9 are from current usable skills, expect your 3 dots, and aetherflow. Im assuming faerie will either be there or compensated like the current faerie loss skill.

For the class job skill loss point. This mostly FEELS like a nerf to the source jobs, and there are a select few that were heavy donors where it will be felt more, WHM/PLD/DRG/MNK are in this category. But for the most part they simply removed vital and highly situational CC/Support abilities that everyone can need access to and moved them here, and in some cases everyone lost for the same like Esuna, most likely Leeches and Exalted Detriment are gone as well. Now across the board it seems simple +dmg OGCD Buffs have been removed and put into more interesting mechanics or worked into other abilities. But from how it seems everyone lost parts of their kit thatll have to be regained, and enough of the often took XCs are gone to use those slots on heavy donor jobs to regain previously natural vital skills. I.E. Paladin no longer has access to Protect, Stoneskin, Cure, Bloodbath, Mercy Stroke, and Foresight in their XCS but the new XRS have their previously native Rampart, Provoke, Conva, Awareness. Before PLD could pretty much function just fine without any XCS while WAR/DRK were pretty much crippled without a lvl 22-34 GLD. So its mostly not as bad as the current freak out is making it seem, and it will itch a bit this june for those who played the heavy donors, but likely by july most of us will barely even notice the problems anymore. Without a doubt, we are gaining a substantially better toolkit to choose out of than the previous system, and for new players and characters a vastly easier to obtain one. So please give it some time and try to loom at the whole picture of whats moving in and out of places with the new system before dropping OMFG MY JOB IS REKD!

[bswpayton]

you need to check the entire PvP portion of the Live Letter.



all the things they took are things that every one of the jobs in that role should be able to do. like Provoke, Goad, Esuna, that's a very good reason.

I mean somethings where up for choice for instance on warrior in dungeons I prefer to use flash and overpower , it works fine but angling is alot work than a cone aoe its gone, bloodbath was a thing is gone, shield swipe on pali gone, re-phrasal on drk cross role now, mercy stroke was cross class its gone now, blood bath for pali is gone and drk, the new things for tanks none of them are self heals, whm basicly has to rebuy their same skills they already had again, these changes didnt benefit anyone but new players coming in.

[SendohJin]

shield swipe on pali gone

says who?

mercy stroke was cross class its gone now, blood bath for pali is gone and drk

good? that makes the jobs more distinct from each other, both of those jobs don't need either of those.

[YitharV2]

good? that makes the jobs more distinct from each other, both of those jobs don't need either of those.

I don't agree. I used it on MNK. It had decent potency and was an extra oGCD skill to use.

[Lambdafish]

I don't agree. I used it on MNK. It had decent potency and was an extra oGCD skill to use.

Considering the amount of change that the jobs are going through, you have the wrong mentality towards this. You are basically going to be relearning your job, so it's absence isnt all that relvant. If they took it out mid heavensward I would agree, but you are getting a new toolkit with new cool stuff to use.

[YitharV2]

-snip-

According to Yoshi-P said, monk rotation hasn't changed that much. And someone said in the Reddit Discord that monk rotation was fine they just needed utility. Of course gameplay will change slightly (especially with The Forbidden Chakra) and my opener will change, but I actually don't think Monk will be that much relearning.

Besides its potency, it was a decent heal as well while soloing. Bloodbath's addition doesn't change anything because Monks already had Bloodbath as a cross class skill. My point is they took away something useful.

The main problem with the cross role system is they have to put something in the bucket of tank healer or dps, but not all the abilities are clear cut as that.

[Lambdafish]

According to Yoshi-P said, monk rotation hasn't changed that much. And someone said in the Reddit Discord that monk rotation was fine they just needed utility. Of course gameplay will change slightly (especially with The Forbidden Chakra) and my opener will change, but I actually don't think Monk will be that much relearning.

Besides its potency, it was a decent heal as well while soloing. Bloodbath's addition doesn't change anything because Monks already had Bloodbath as a cross class skill. My point is they took away something useful.

As a PLD, I more than anyone should understand your point considering I have lost synergy with WHM, but I understand that with the amount of change coming that the job will play differently in 4.0, and it may well be that the skills are not missed because the battle system works differently now. The point is that you haven't "lost" mercy stroke, it has simply been replaced with new abilities. You get leg sweep, goad, diversion, and a new role skill which takes away your directional requirements, most of which are better than mercy stroke.

[OcieKo]

I mean somethings where up for choice for instance on warrior in dungeons I prefer to use flash and overpower , it works fine but angling is alot work than a cone aoe its gone, bloodbath was a thing is gone, shield swipe on pali gone, re-phrasal on drk cross role now, mercy stroke was cross class its gone now, blood bath for pali is gone and drk, the new things for tanks none of them are self heals, whm basicly has to rebuy their same skills they already had again, these changes didnt benefit anyone but new players coming in.

SCH and SMN are losing Virus and Eye For An Eye
WHM is losing Esuna, Protect, Cleric Stance
BLM is losing Swiftcast, Surecast, and Apocastasis
BRD is losing Swiftsong and Quelling Strikes
WAR is losing Bloodbath
MNK is losing Second Wind
DRG is losing Low Kick and Invigorate
NIN is losing Goad
PLD is losing Provoke, Convalesence, Rampart, Awareness
DRK is losing Low Blow and Reprisal
MCH is losing all 3 of its OGCD CCs

Thats everything I can remember that is confirmed to be moved to XRS

Then theres some other probabilities based what is there.
AST is likely losing Exalted Detriment
SCH is likely losing Leeches
WAR is likely losing Brutal Swing and Storm's Path (10% DMG Reduc one not the Slash never remember which is Eye which is Path just that Slash = Pink, -DMG = Teal)
PLD is likely losing Spirits Within

And skills that were notably missing that may be gone or worked into new job mechanics or other skills.
MNK missing given Inner Focus and Mantra
WAR missing given Mercy Stroke
WHM missing given Stoneskin
DRG missing given Blood for Blood
BRD missing given Hawk Eye and Raging Strikes

Then the trend of XCs that are dmg or simple core skills are gone from the cross system but likely still nearly unchanged on the core class like
WHM given Cure 1
ACN/SCH/SMN given Physick and Bio 1
BLM given Blizzard 2
WAR/PLD given Step 2 Enmity Generators

Take a bit and look at the WHOLE picture we have so far, some are easy to explain like BRD Hawkeye with accuracy being gone its just a 15% dex buff, BLM/SMN are losing nothing here. Cleric Stances primary funtion of swapping MND with INT is now detrimental and thus removed given that MND affects healer dmg. Stoneskin may be WHM unique again as part of the lilies mechanic and less of a boring pre fight start-up or rez sickness health buffer.

And I'm sure as more details come out you gunna notice a lot of other things having been moved around. So take a sec breathe, things are likely far less ominous than it seems when your nose is touching the screen just below you main jobs change notes.

[YitharV2]

I mean somethings where up for choice for instance on warrior in dungeons I prefer to use flash and overpower

Wait a second. Wait just a dang second. I totally forgot about Flash. I've taken it for granted that I've just had it. I mean, WAR doesn't necessarily need it, but it was really good for being omni-directional It's especially useful when extra adds spawn for whatever reason. It was also useful when I ran low on TP.