Suggestion as to how to get people to become healers.

[ErryK]

Even minimum ilvl ends up with massive downtimes when it comes to healing. IMO, I shouldn't have to go to Savage raids in order to encounter content that requires me to do more than hit a button every 10 seconds or so.

Well, I wasn't even trying to make a poin that min. iLv is difficult, but the fact that content is so easy when it releases is because it's made to cater newbies who may or may not DPS. And as far as I can remember, Yoshi doesn't want "challenge" to bleed into casual content, which is what 90% of this game is. So either you suck it up and do Savage/Extreme primals for challenge or you just find another game.

I could do Xelphatol or Gubal wearing full Lore gear (230) and still be in Cleric for 80% of the run. These were dungeons released when 250+ gear was easily available. Content outside EX/Savage is utterly laughable in terms of difficulty, which I firmly believe contributes to the enormous skill gap. There is simply no incentive to improve when you can spam 1-2-3 and be perfectly fine.

That's my point, there is no way that content will be demanding if the bar is held so low. I mean, look at Soul of the Creator Savage in DF, it's min. iLv255...

[Lambdafish]

And as far as I can remember, Yoshi doesn't want "challenge" to bleed into casual content, which is what 90% of this game is. So either you suck it up and do Savage/Extreme primals for challenge or you just find another game.



That's my point, there is no way that content will be demanding if the bar is held so low. I mean, look at Soul of the Creator Savage in DF, it's min. iLv255...

Honestly, as a game designer, Yoshi Ps philosophy for difficulty makes me irrationally angry... I don't mind having easy content, it is necessarily for the accessibility of the game, but if you keep making content "accessible" then you lose the flow of progression, and the skill gap gets wider. We need to take levelling dungeons into account with this too, because there is no sense in making expert dungeons easier than levelling dungeons (which they are). Yoshi P needs to take a long hard look at the difficulty map of the game, there needs to be a neat line through all the content that balances dungeons through to midcore content through to savage and beyond. When we ask for more difficult content he's like "but you didn't like gordias", when what we are asking for isn't harder raids, but to make the 90% faceroll content from a cliff into a slope in terms of difficulty progression

[ErryK]

snip

That's what they said they'd do with 4.0 apparently.

[Lambdafish]

That's what they said they'd do with 4.0 apparently.

With the philosophy that has been demonstrated lately, I'm inclined to not believe that until I see it. But who knows, I was impressed by 3.3 until they did a 180 on the progress made there with 3.5

[Vanitas]

Oh no it wants to bite my ankles off!

[Sebazy]

Oh no it wants to bite my ankles off!

Pls, I've got enough manifestos to stand on and reach your knees np! *nomnom*

That's what they said they'd do with 4.0 apparently.

Hopefully they get it back on point aye, ARR actually had a pretty decent learning curve when it launched. AV and WP both forced you to pay attention and do some mechanics to win, whilst AK's bosses taught you the importance of awareness and movement whilst also being able to maintain DPS. These lessons carried into the HM primals with Titan acting as a gatekeeper of sorts for both relic weapons and of course the end game raiding scene with BCoil. With HW it was all up and down right from the word go.

[Tint]

Hopefully they get it back on point aye, ARR actually had a pretty decent learning curve when it launched. AV and WP both forced you to pay attention and do some mechanics to win, whilst AK's bosses taught you the importance of awareness and movement whilst also being able to maintain DPS. These lessons carried into the HM primals with Titan acting as a gatekeeper of sorts for both relic weapons and of course the end game raiding scene with BCoil. With HW it was all up and down right from the word go.

Pharos Sirius was the end of the properly balanced dungeon content. people were quitting at the beginning of the dungeon cause they knew they suck and didn't had any plans to get better, to not getting pharos in roulette they didn't even unlocked the dungeon in the first place. so they changed it that you have to unlock all dungeons to be able to enter roulette. that was good. but at the same time they nerfed the current dungeons and released only baby mode dungeons since then.
pharos was not even that hard. and when people didn't run away at the entrance we finished it every single time. we should go back to patch 2.1 pharos sirius difficulty. for every dungeon, so nitpicking doesn't matter, since you can't get an easier one for roulette. people WILL get better, but you have to force them. othewise they choose the easy way.

[Zojha]

people WILL get better, but you have to force them.

Okay, so... how do you force people to stick to this game instead of choosing the easy way of going elsewhere?

I find this "force" approach somewhat flawed. You can't force people if they dun wanna.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Okay, so... how do you force people to stick to this game instead of choosing the easy way of going elsewhere?

I find this "force" approach somewhat flawed. You can't force people if they dun wanna.

You can't force someone, but you can provide incentives. Weeping City remains a prime example of "touch love" so to speak. People whined about it and Final Steps of Faith but the devs said they wouldn't nerf it. Because the rewards were good enough, people got over it. Stormblood could easily accomplish the same thing if the devs bump the difficulty up from the get go.

[Kazrah]

Because the rewards were good enough, people got over it. Stormblood could easily accomplish the same thing if the devs bump the difficulty up from the get go.

They did that with Gordias Savage. That didn't work AT ALL, and Yoshi admitted that the difficulty was too much there due to some jobs getting barred from running those raids.

The issue with healing in this game is that it's a player-created circumstance further promoted by content like Gordias Savage being developed to require healers to do the job of a DPS on top of the primary task of their chosen role. The goal for healing difficulty should realistically be enough so that healers have breathing room to do damage not because they have to, but because they want to, whether it be to relieve boredom or to gain enough credibility to tell that lazy DPS to git gud.

As someone who has played both, I can say from personal experience that tanks have gotten far more than enough love, and devs should start giving some to the healers that put up with emphatically incompetent DPS that wonder why the healer isn't doing enough damage when that healer can barely keep up that paperweight of a tank who insists on pulling everything and then hiding behind a corner. /rant