1.2 Needs to fix Sentinel, Tanking, and XI Class-ism.

[Madruk]

They're already balancing it around exclusive class only skills. It's not a true open ended system where you have a blank character and add whatever you want. The job system is going to further limit your options. They said they wanted the armory system geared more towards solo play and the job system for raid/groups.

[rzr22]

i dont think job will work this way. how would you be a PLD if you cant use cure?

Maybe by making cure a Paladin skill as well? Hell, it's even like this in FFXI. You don't need WHM as a subjob to get cure.

[Platinumstorm]

I think a problem potentially exists if there is a skill that is considered strong enough for a nonprimary role player that many shells are requiring that all the players they have take it. That does suggest a potential problem and it's something that might want to be looked into.

As the OP states, forcing people to go beyond how they want their character to grow and develop could lead to scaring off players.

[Raijin]

And this is exactly why I hate open ended skill systems. They either force the game to be too easy (and thus boring), or they aren't open ended at all and I would much prefer the typical MMO class system.

but this is the thing, you are in NO WAY required to have the skill to win, it just makes the fight more difficult

[Neptune]

Who said you need Sentinel? Without Sentinel you can still survive the attack, although you might need to recover afterwards with several Curaga 2's.

[Isaaru]

lol @op for making a thread bc he doesn't want to waste his time lvling GLA so he wastes time making this thread.

[Jynx]

No matter the system there will always be a "Cookie cutter" way of doing things, it's your choice if you want to go against the grain or not.

I can't remember how often I was asked if I had /drk in XI in this situation I would laugh and promptly tell them that..no I did not.

[akisato]

Maybe by making cure a Paladin skill as well? Hell, it's even like this in FFXI. You don't need WHM as a subjob to get cure.

yea or why not just get it for CNJ. it is true you didn't need WHM to use cure as a PLD in ff11 but that was because PLD could ,like WHM and RDM, use white magic. so kinda the same thing PLD will be able to use conjury.

[rzr22]

That does suggest a potential problem and it's something that might want to be looked into.

But then where's the cut-off point? That's the issue your argument runs into.

Lets pretend Random Idiot has a completely off the wall build. He takes forever to kill things. He dies a lot, but eventually gets there. He now wants to join your group.

Do you say yes or no? No, right? Why? Because his build is bad. It's not efficient. It wastes your time.

At what point does SE say, "No, your build simply does not work." There has to be some point. If there is no cut-off point, then bosses will have to be so easy that Random Idiot can go kill a boss only using Aero 1 if he so desires. And who are you to tell them otherwise? The skill system is supposed to be free, right? But wait, you do care. Why? Because while Random Idiot is struggling with the fight because he's spamming Aero 1, you're sitting there bored to tears because it takes no effort for you, the min/maxer, to actually defeat the boss.

but this is the thing, you are in NO WAY required to have the skill to win, it just makes the fight more difficult

I will admit that I have no experience with this fight. So maybe you can fill me in.

There's a difference between "not required" and "not required, but it sure makes things a lot easier if you do." If your odds of completing some portion of content are increased significantly by using a certain skill, to the playerbase, this becomes required. In MMOs, time is king. Time trumps skill in a lot of cases. The best use of time often becomes the requirement or the expectancy.

Now, if your argument is that the fight without Sentinel is only marginally more difficult (or is a crutch for dumb players) and the playerbase is blowing things out of proportion, then you have a point. Regardless, I still think my point that open skill systems are a slippery slope remains, though perhaps not for this particular issue.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

Honestly, the job system should fix this completely. Jobs are going to be better for party play, and they're going to lock you out of using abilities from other classes.

i approve of this post!