How would you handle this situation with mean spirited mentors?

[SenorPatty]

Paranoia

Dude

I'm not even a mentor and I get my hand bitten off more often if I try to explain or give advice then if I don't.

Maybe Miste's exaggerating the statistics. But its from her POV. Personally, I'd say 60% of the time. Its not the universal statistic for every player but for me, that's how it is. When I don't get my throat bitten off, my advice is just soundly ignored.

That's why I don't blame mentors for being silent until things go wrong cuz for the ones that actually do try, more often than not, there's always gonna be that one "its my sub" kind of player in the party.

[Hitsuzen]

I don't get backlash for advice, mostly because I frame it in a way to make it not seem mandatory.

For example "So and so, just a tip: turning the mobs around while tanking will reduce the damage the party suffers in the "cleave."

They either respond well or they don't respond at all, but I never get a negative response. This is because I am stating a fact not demanding they change or telling them they are wrong or bad. In fact I don't even care if they take mt advice; it's their sub they don't have to take my advice. If they don't they'll never progress past duty finder and will be kicked by other not so patient people in extreme primals though. I will always try to be helpful though if I see a sprout icon or "new player to duty"

I play my tank very well and use my CDs very intelligently, but I could still be considered "bad" for not wasting my gil buying and overmelding materia. If someone gave me "advice" to meld materia to my gear. I'd tell them okay sure level my ARM to 60 for me and buy my materia kthx jk I know I know, but I am not doing savage raids and stormblood is around the corner seems a waste.

[Alien_Gamer]

I rarely offer advice to people. If I see a new person bonus I'll wait until they prove they don't know the mechanics or ask before I'll say anything.

On the rare occasion that I actually have my mentor tag on I'll say "Hi, if you need any help or advice please don't hesitate to ask." Since I'm often a tank I'll also do a ready check before bosses if I saw a new person bonus at the beginning. I've found it lets people know I'm open and people don't feel like I'm being pushy or interfering with their play style.

[LineageRazor]

I apologize for blowing up - I just get so damn sick of folks assuming the worst of others. Perhaps I'm a starry-eyed optimist, but I firmly believe that the majority of players are NOT so wrapped up in their pride that they'd deliberately sabotage someone for trying to help. I'm willing to admit that I, too, may be a victim of perception bias, though in my case I tend to downplay the negative experiences I've had, rather than dwell on them. Personally, I think that's the preferred form of perception bias for any individual in a position where they're expected to guide and help others, whether it be in this game or in real life. Recognize that the bad apples may be frustrating, but as long as you can reach a few receptive individuals, it makes up for all the crap, and then some.

I don't know Miste, and she could be the kindest, sweetest person imaginable - but it does not matter. Her post was one typical of those that I've heard, enforcing the idea that mentors shouldn't even TRY to mentor, because they'll just get shut down and harassed. EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE, it is harmful, and serves to frighten newer mentors who might otherwise try to help others. It implies that it's just not worth trying, that the mentor system has failed, that you might as well switch off the crown and pretend you never had it. This is not a viable, acceptable, or desirable solution.

As for the idea of "click to report this mentor as horrible" button at the end of a run, I'm also optimistic enough to believe that if the devs were to implement this, it would NOT be a one-click lose-mentor-status button. They do know that trolls exist and even without trolls some folks make rash decisions for stupid reasons.

[Kogekigami]

I think lols report situation is similar they take a tally of reports and why if you have a high number they read logs. Obviously if the mentor went out of line direct report to gm

[akaneakki]

[QUOTE=LineageRazor;4136024I don't know Miste, and she could be the kindest, sweetest person imaginable - but it does not matter. Her post was one typical of those that I've heard, enforcing the idea that mentors shouldn't even TRY to mentor, because they'll just get shut down and harassed..[/QUOTE]
I've had people who seen my crown and ask for my help, which is great. I've tried to help people who are new without being asked and I've been shut down. Sometimes I'm aware they might not know my language, doesn't have a keyboard for the ps4 for example,. which I find weird as communication is really needed in a MMORPG. Anyways, people been shutdown with or without crown and it happens a lot. I mean some people can maybe come off as ''rude'' saying things like ''why don't you use darkside with grit'' and their response is ''shut up and just keep doing your own thing'' This happens a lot and many threads in this forum shows it with even screenshots.

[Ama_Hamada]

I apologize for blowing up - I just get so damn sick of folks assuming the worst of others. Perhaps I'm a starry-eyed optimist, but I firmly believe that the majority of players are NOT so wrapped up in their pride that they'd deliberately sabotage someone for trying to help. I'm willing to admit that I, too, may be a victim of perception bias, though in my case I tendto downplay the negative experiences I've had, rather than dwell on them. Personally, I think that's the preferred form of perception bias for any individual in a position where they're expected to guide and help others, whether it be in this game or in real life. Recognize that the bad apples may be frustrating, but as long as you can reach a few receptive individuals, it makes up for all the crap, and then some.

I don't know Miste, and she could be the kindest, sweetest person imaginable - but it does not matter. Her post was one typical of those that I've heard, enforcing the idea that mentors shouldn't even TRY to mentor, because they'll just get shut down and harassed. EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE, it is harmful, and serves to frighten newer mentors who might otherwise try to help others. It implies that it's just not worth trying, that the mentor system has failed, that you might as well switch off the crown and pretend you never had it. This is not a viable, acceptable, or desirable solution.

As for the idea of "click to report this mentor as horrible" button at the end of a run, I'm also optimistic enough to believe that if the devs were to implement this, it would NOT be a one-click lose-mentor-status button. They do know that trolls exist and even without trolls some folks make rash decisions for stupid reasons.

Being an optimist is one thing, being blind is another.

I would side with you if we did not have the following changes due to trolling:
penalty for rejecting queue when it pops up
----I got it from being in crafts, unable change job in fate (it requires you run too far and monsters can keep you tied up from changing job) and even D/C ( I d/ced before the thing poped up, log in to ----penalty because the game keeps you on too long.
-------- This change was made because people trolled the Duty finger and spammed reject because it was funny. If people where "more good then toxic" we would not have this change.

Duty abandonment penalty
---- This change came about most likely I am guessing for the same reason why it is in WoW. Some tank walks in with their insta queue, does not like the DF that pop up and leaves right away -----because they can just insta queue again. If people where "more good then toxic" we would not have this change.

Kick feature:
---- We did not start 2.0 with it.

PvP feast chat:
----- recently there was a chat removal in feast due to people being toxic.

Mentor system in general:
----- There is lots of complaints here how people can't get help or calling the chat useless. I seen it along with the kick function used as a pure harassment tool.

Also shocked you have 2.4k posts and never seen miste's tone before in posts, if she can act like she does here, it is CLEAR AS DAY she is very civil in the game. I am shocked to hear she has problems like the rest of us tbh, only shows more why mentor review is a bad idea and get trolled. If people even make premades in DF to simply troll and fail them, then this system will be abused, without a question it will be. I would love to be optimistic and like to see it work, however I am not blind and it does not address mentors being helpful in the open world. This may be news for you but there are crafting and gathering people, even mentors with this tag, that hate setting foot in DF. So they should have status taken away because they never really can be reviewed? I do not think so

[Hitsuzen]

I disagree with you perspective Ama Hamada.

Yes we should have troll safe guards, because once in a blue moon someone will pull a trick, but that does not mean we are too toxic for a mentor end of dungeon survey thing.

[Sil3ntxR3qui3m]

Usually when someone mentions they're new to the duty, I'm usually like "Oh don't worry, this place is easy." If they ask for mechanics I will give them. If not, I assume they would like to do a blind run and just see what happens. If you don't speak up, I won't help you. I've been ignored or berated too many times by just giving advice without them needing to ask for it. In OP's situation, the mentor healers should have expected that people would mess up. I have seen people one-shot Nidhogg as a newbie to the fight only once.

I don't do Mentor Roulette so I'm certainly not doing it for the mount. I do it to show others that I'm someone who can help.

I would use Novice Network if it wasn't filled with people calling out hunts (rather, the same person every time). I shut it off because that was really getting on my nerves.

[Miste]

I don't know Miste, and she could be the kindest, sweetest person imaginable - but it does not matter. Her post was one typical of those that I've heard, enforcing the idea that mentors shouldn't even TRY to mentor, because they'll just get shut down and harassed. EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE, it is harmful, and serves to frighten newer mentors who might otherwise try to help others. It implies that it's just not worth trying, that the mentor system has failed, that you might as well switch off the crown and pretend you never had it. This is not a viable, acceptable, or desirable solution.

I just tell the truth of my experiences. I'm probably more unlucky than others unfortunately where my percentage is very high of people ignoring me completely and/or harassing me for trying to tell them how to play; be it for mechanics or tips and advice for their jobs.

I also never said anywhere in my post that mentors shouldn't try to mentor. I still do even with all the nasty stuff I get thrown at me...you seriously haven't seen the nasty I have seen and I could go into horrid detail right now of some of the really terrible comments I've received even for the most simplest of assistance.

From a SMN telling me to "f*** off" after I tried to help him with a boss mechanic in a dungeon to that WHM calling me an "elitist b****" for just giving a newbie player info on where to buy a new weapon after we finished the Vault run we were in since they were still using a level 50 weapon (i100) at level 59.

It's just the truth if you become a mentor and actively try to help other players you are going to get crapped on more often than not and it is more of a warning that you need to be ready for that if you want to be a mentor and try to fulfill what a mentor is supposed to be.

So no I don't think it is "harmful" we shouldn't pretend everything is sunshine and rainbows when it isn't. The mentor system hasn't failed, but it definitely isn't what it COULD be if everyone were not so quick to get defensive at other players and if the mentors who actively behave terribly like in OP would just not wear the crown and move on since it isn't a position to abuse new players like that when you are supposed to be helping them.

Any mentor who would get scared likely doesn't have a thick enough skin to be a mentor in the first place unfortunately and there is just no point in lying about my experiences.

The joy is the times people appreciated my help and its great...it just is so sad that it is so very few memories for me personally.

As for the idea of "click to report this mentor as horrible" button at the end of a run, I'm also optimistic enough to believe that if the devs were to implement this, it would NOT be a one-click lose-mentor-status button. They do know that trolls exist and even without trolls some folks make rash decisions for stupid reasons.

It's not a good system because even if it isn't just one "No" and you get your rewards revoked some mentors are still going to get their statuses and rewards removed with no real valid reasons due to the fact you cannot give subjective people power over someone else's character. I get into a string of people who don't like my advice or help and they all downvote me one after one and I'll get mine removed even if I was trying to mentor properly.

You cannot give subjective people power over your character with the power to remove something your character has earned. The main problem is the subjectivity. One person might say "Hey...that mentor helped with a lot of the mechanics, but they didn't even teach the DRG how to play right so I carried his DPS....yeah not good enough "Downvote" (maybe the mentor doesn't know how to play DRG? I know I don't, but is it fair to expect a mentor in a video game to know every single aspect of everything?) while another might be like "Ohh that mentor didn't speak at all meh "Downvote" (even though the run went smooth and fine since everyone knew how to do the run so the mentor had nothing to mentor, but some people just hate it when mentors are silent no matter the circumstances).

Some people just don't like it when people do or don't do certain things and its all from that person's personality. You can't give that kind of power to regular players. Like I said SE would need to hire new staff and pay them to watch over the mentor system because of all the different views players have.


PS. Thank you akaneakki, Ama Hamada, and SenorPatty for the help with explaining and the support.

And akaneakki, and Ama, I am glad you guys like my posts I am no saint though :x I get into my arguments on here once in awhile although I do always try to be civil about it so I am glad my efforts have been working. Some people just say some really rude things on here and I just feel the need to tell them to stop it ><