Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[HyoMinPark]

Nowhere in this discussion were we talking about this yet you bring it up. The projection is strong.
Limit Break saves a few seconds, a minute at most. Most of the time LB in the chat will do the trick to remind. But no, I guess ill leave since LB was not managed properly or the Healer isn't dpsing making us lose about 15% of our damage. Guess this will take us about 10% longer to complete boo hoo ima take a 30 minute penalty now.

Except that's usually what happens when anyone (mentor or not) tries to give advice to those performing on a sub par level. You yourself quoted LunaSnowfield's 3 points, number 3 being how SMNs either use just one DoT, or none at all. And when you try to kindly tell them "Hey, you will do more damage if you use Bio II, Miasma, AND Bio, and Bane them to the entire trash group," they retaliate with things like "You don't pay my sub" or "I play how I want to play, you elitist prick." So Mystery brings up a valid point; this isn't projection, and I think you may want to refresh yourself on what the definition of projection is.

Psychological Projection: a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.
This including blame shifting.

While I have never partied with Mystery (to my knowledge anyways), they hardly seem the type to play poorly, and then turn around and accuse others of playing poorly while ignoring their own poor performance. If they did, that would be projection. However, their comment you quoted in bold is not.

Limit Breaks going to waste fall in the same boat as DPS not playing their class to, at the very least, the most basic level. My own personal rule is, if a melee does not LB before 10%, the minute a boss (in any content, 4-man, 8-man, or 24-man) hits 10% HP, I LB. Yes, even if I am on bard, I use my weaker ranged physical DPS LB. Because why waste it? Especially in 24-mans where it goes away the minute the next boss is pulled? If melee get mad about a ranged using the LB, well, that's not my problem. They shouldn't just leave the LB sitting there, and LBing at 1% is just as wasteful as not LBing at all. This is my opinion.

A dragoon doesn't want to use Heavy Thrust? Well, there goes a 10% damage increase to their entire rotation throughout the entire duty. A bard doesn't want to use Wanderer's Minuet? Minus 30% damage to their entire rotation throughout the entire duty, plus they lose access to Empyreal Arrow and Iron Jaws, which are staples in a bard's rotation at level 60. Healer doesn't want to DPS? That's easily 10-15% total DPS in a duty. And all of that can add up very quick.

And again, it's not elitist, nor is it projection, to expect others to carry their own weight (yes, even in Duty Finder), and refuse to carry entire parties through content. I will gladly eat a 30 minute penalty (which I can spend time crafting or gathering, and be for more content and far less irritated) if it means I don't have to carry a party through easy content (or really, any content). That's not something I find particularly enjoyable, and I won't be called an elitist for refusing to carry. And I don't consider it to be QQ-ing to eat an penalty rather than carry players.

[Ama_Hamada]

I have to ask, is Dissipation actually a useful skill? Because in all the time I have actually had it, the only times I've actually used it is when I hit it by accident. I don't know, it just seems like sacrificing your fairy for 3 aetherflow stacks and the increased healing potency, which you now have to use MP for, isn't exactly worth it. Then again, personally, I'm not in the habit of spamming Lustrates for clutch heals as SCH.

When tanks take too much damage where physick/fairy is not enough, and when you have no stacks? + DPS standing on bad in top of it? Yeah I use it, pretty much all those points where if i don't a wipe or someone will die. I get it is rarely used, why I said I go whole DFs not using it. That is why my macro exists, if I have to use it, it means many things where going wrong for me to resort to it.

As for the macro itself, everyone that spoke to me about it was from enjoying it and enjoying the song reference, lol.

The game may not explain how Limit Breaks work outside of the Active Help,

What do you mean? There is a pop up that explains LB when you first form a party, or 4 person party (forget) for the first time.

[HyoMinPark]

What do you mean? There is a pop up that explains LB when you first form a party, or 4 person party (forget) for the first time.

What I mean is that this game does not explain the more in-depth mechanics of Limit Breaks. If I am remembering correctly, the game does not tell you exactly what each one does, nor does it address that melee LB is the strongest, followed by caster, and then ranged physical. The Active Help entry addresses the 5 different types (tank, healer, melee, caster, and ranged physical), but if memory serves, the pop-up in which you refer to does not. Nor do I think either explain which DPS LB is the strongest.

However, the basic concept of what a Limit Break is, is pretty self-explanatory. Especially if players have played other Final Fantasy games in the past. Not understanding that not using it is a waste is just unacceptable. What I meant was, regardless of if the game gives an in-depth explanation of Limit Break and its mechanics, players should know that just sitting on it/not using it is just wasteful, and a poor practice.

I addressed this because of the post Viola quoted, and how we should just "deal with it" if players choose to, to reference bullet point 2 from the quote they quoted, ignore/not use the LB.

[Khaidal]

To play devil's advocate with the LB thing, I think some of us melees might be leery about using it because people sometimes complain when we do. There have been a few dungeons where I've gotten yelled at for not saving the LB for the casters. I'm not overly familiar with how each dungeon is run yet (just hit 60 today), so I'm wondering if others are in the same boat.

Though I agree there's no excuse for not using it on the final boss. Even an idiot n00b like me can tell if you're going to get a 2nd bar or not ha ha.

[Dzian]

One of the DPS recruited the tank ( so they knew each other in some way, remember how I said i entered there without a tank as well?), also auto siding with the tank because good tank = hold hate, no one cares about the healer point of view along with not caring about the belittling I got over my healing. I can't use embrace when I had to dissipation because of the lack of CDs and taking too much damage. (during the downtime moments anyway, the person was not stance dancing, just full time Deliverance. A good tank that is attempting that should know when to put Defiance back on, not give middle finger to your healer when things are going bad, you keep it on because healers can heal anything) If you want to point the fingers at me well next 2 experts I got went fine, it is not me. (I was doing expert for Monday and Tuesday dailies under this week's reset) He wants to claim there was never embrace used because he took too much damage????

In my opinion using Dissipation was your biggest mistake.
It's literally never worth using. The 20% boost to your heals is terrible. Firstly it doesn't impact Lustrate or Indomnibiity. And secondly getting a 20% buff on Psykick isn't worth losing the potency of Embrace for.

If your Psykicks hit for ~5k on average then under Dissipation they'd hit for ~6k. Which is pretty lame compared to a 5k Psykick and 3k Embrace from your fairy..

Theres also the almost 2,000 MP cost of getting your fairy back once Dissipation wears off

You'd probably have been better off using Emergency Tactics with Adlo. For the extra heal boosts.

From a healing perspective Dissipation is pretty much never worth it.

[HyoMinPark]

To play devil's advocate with the LB thing, I think some of us melees might be leery about using it because people sometimes complain when we do...

With regards to the caster LB, I think there's very few situations where you would want to hold the LB for a caster. I can think of 2 off of the top of my head that you will encounter once you catch up with the MSQ and sidequest dungeons: Sohm Al HM for the second Hiss on the final boss to swiftly kill the adds before they skewer the tank, and Gubal HM during the big daddy pull after the second boss. Otherwise, I think most of the time it's expected for melee to use the LB. I'm kind of surprised to hear you say you've gotten flack for using melee LB. Usually I'm the one getting flack for using BRD LB on a boss after the melee just sit there twiddling their thumbs on it. XD

[Khaidal]

With regards to the caster LB, I think there's very few situations where you would want to hold the LB for a caster. I can think of 2 off of the top of my head that you will encounter once you catch up with the MSQ and sidequest dungeons: Sohm Al HM for the second Hiss on the final boss to swiftly kill the adds before they skewer the tank, and Gubal HM during the big daddy pull after the second boss. Otherwise, I think most of the time it's expected for melee to use the LB. I'm kind of surprised to hear you say you've gotten flack for using melee LB. D

I thought it was strange too. People I originally talked to said to have the melee use the LB, then some people are saying, "No we want to use it for this trash pull." It gets confusing! Today I did an AetheroIcan'tspell uh...Place...and used the LB on the first boss, thinking we'll get it back. BLM in the group threw a fit because then they couldn't use it on the next pull.

[Sacred_Nym]

LB chat

I might be weird for saying this but I think a Caster LB on a large trash pull is always better than Melee LB on a boss when it comes to dungeons. Dungeons bosses are only capable of providing a challenge to players, for the most part, if the healer is either distracted or tunnel-visioning DPS. Trash on the other hand, is a DPS check that, while small, does have a chance of failure in many DF parties. Also the fact that AoE math means you get more potency out of a Caster LB on a big pull than a Melee LB.

[Ama_Hamada]

What I mean is that this game does not explain the more in-depth mechanics of Limit Breaks. If I am remembering correctly, the game does not tell you exactly what each one does, nor does it address that melee LB is the strongest, followed by caster, and then ranged physical. The Active Help entry addresses the 5 different types (tank, healer, melee, caster, andranged physical), but if memory serves, the pop-up in which you refer to does not. Nor do I think either explain which DPS LB is the strongest.

However, the basic concept of what a Limit Break is, is pretty self-explanatory. Especially if players have played other Final Fantasy games in the past. Not understanding that not using it is a waste is just unacceptable. What I meant was, regardless of if the game gives an in-depth explanation of Limit Break and its mechanics, players should know that just sitting on it/not using it is just wasteful, and a poor practice.

I addressed this because of the post Viola quoted, and how we should just "deal with it" if players choose to, to reference bullet point 2 from the quote they quoted, ignore/not use the LB.

Yeah I think the game can do a better job showing new players it exist? Because it is not set on action bar, it is not in the menu where other actions happen to be, and the tool tips/ stuff in game does not show the different potency and I disagree with them making range weakest>< it is very hard to aim, can fail at times with odd movements and other things.

In my opinion using Dissipation was your biggest mistake.
It's literally never worth using. The 20% boost to your heals is terrible. Firstly it doesn't impact Lustrate or Indomnibiity. And secondly getting a 20% buff on Psykick isn't worth losing the potency of Embrace for.

If your Psykicks hit for ~5k on average then under Dissipation they'd hit for ~6k. Which is pretty lame compared to a 5k Psykick and 3k Embrace from your fairy..

Theres also the almost 2,000 MP cost of getting your fairy back once Dissipation wears off

You'd probably have been better off using Emergency Tactics with Adlo. For the extra heal boosts.

From a healing perspective Dissipation is pretty much never worth it.

If I did not use it, the tank would of died, that is why I was complaining to the tank to use Defiance when he had no CDs, it was like my cures did nothing outside spamming 3 lusterate during those moments, the tank was taking too much damage. I was out of stacks, I needed to spam more Lustrate. That is when I use it, if people are going to die or wipe without it, I use it.

With regards to the caster LB, I think there's very few situations where you would want to hold the LB for a caster. I can think of 2 off of the top of my head that you will encounter once you catch up with the MSQ and sidequest dungeons: Sohm Al HM for the second Hiss on the final boss to swiftly kill the adds before they skewer the tank, and Gubal HM during the big daddy pull after the second boss. Otherwise, I think most of the time it's expected for melee to use the LB. I'm kind of surprised to hear you say you've gotten flack for using melee LB. Usually I'm the one getting flack for using BRD LB on a boss after the melee just sit there twiddling their thumbs on it. XD

List of caster LB/ range LB:
Final boss on The tam-tara deepcroft, last wave of adds, preferred when people know what they are doing and rush the imps.
The thousand maws of toto-rak, final boss when tail spawns with adds, I am pretty sure muti hit lb 2 + targets is better then 1 target ( see next)
Haukke manor (you can lb 3 times here depending on how slow/fast dps is. If LB is charged before pulling first boss, melee LB it, otherwise save for next boss. On second boss use lb on pull hit both boss things, doing so will allow lb charged on last wave of adds on final boss, caster lb those too.
Brayfox longstop, first boss, hit both things.
The aurum vale: depends if have a WHM willing to aoe DPS, I have not seen anything else dependable to kill those things fast on last boss, if no whm go head and caster the second wave.
Castrum meridianum: some mega pull after the first? boss. it is when you gather like 20 things then move to the blow up pipes part. Great place to range or caster lb.
Aohm ai ( think) the final boss with the 2 wing spawn, having a range/caster on that can really help the healer and speed that phase up.
The great gubal library hard (that mega pull you said), sometimes second lb on final boss
Baselears wall: final pull before boss, get lb back in time to use on final boss.
Sohm AL (hard): first pull after second boss for first lb, second lb on second add wave on final boss ( you shouldn't be seeing a 3rd wave) as you said, but you left out you can lb another time this DF.

I never really seen people complain about melee using lb though, seeing it used is better not seeing it used, goes unused so much>< though I did complain once in sohm AL hard since I think lb that group after that boss saves a lot more time then lb that second boss.

[HyoMinPark]

I thought it was strange too. People I originally talked to said to have the melee use the LB, then some people are saying, "No we want to use it for this trash pull." It gets confusing! Today I did an AetheroIcan'tspell uh...Place...and used the LB on the first boss, thinking we'll get it back. BLM in the group threw a fit because then they couldn't use it on the next pull.

Caster LB could be useful on the first large pull after the first boss; the one with the first Node. However, I rarely ever see the casters I run with use it. I suppose it depends on the group, but if one would like to use a caster LB for that trash pull, it wouldn't hurt for them to communicate as such, I don't think. That way everyone knows what the game plan is, and there's no confusion and no finger-pointing/salt if someone uses it, not knowing a caster intended it for a trash pull. We can't all be mind-readers, so I think communication is key when it comes to LB usage.

I might be weird for saying this but I think a Caster LB on a large trash pull is always better than Melee LB on a boss when it comes to dungeons. Dungeons bosses are only capable of providing a challenge to players, for the most part, if the healer is either distracted or tunnel-visioning DPS. Trash on the other hand, is a DPS check that, while small, does have a chance of failure in many DF parties. Also the fact that AoE math means you get more potency out of a Caster LB on a big pull than a Melee LB.

I don't think you're weird at all for saying that. I suppose in my dungeon experience, most casters don't bother LB-ing trash. This isn't to say that it wouldn't be more useful/better than a melee LB on a boss. Just perhaps it doesn't occur to them to do so, or maybe they're worried about people throwing salt their way about it. Like I said to Khaidal, communication would be nice. I'm sure it's not too hard to just type "Hey, gonna caster LB large trash pull after this boss." Would probably lessen the amount of confrontations when it comes to LB usage (though I'm sure there are still people that would get their pants all in a twist over it, but...can't please everybody).

Ranged LB list...I never really seen people complain about melee using lb though, seeing it used is better not seeing it used, goes unused so much>< though I did complain once in sohm AL hard since I think lb that group after that boss saves a lot more time then lb that second boss.

I know caster LB would be useful in those instances. Just when I wrote the post you quoted, I only listed the two that instantly came to mind. I could probably count on one hand though, the times I've seen LBs used in those particular pulls. I only really consistently see it used in Gubal HM and Sohm Al HM. But again, perhaps it either doesn't occur to some casters to use it, or they just want to avoid people throwing salt at them over it.

I've seen some casters/ranged use their LB on the Void Crystal adds in Dun Scaith. That is, if it goes to waste on the first boss. Not sure which one would be more of a DPS gain though, but I'm guessing that the wasted LB3 for Deathgaze would probably be better than the LB2 on the Void Crystals. But don't quote me on that. And, of course, using LB immediately on the Aether things during Proto's fight, since each one gives you a full LB bar. Occasionally, I'll see a caster LB Scathach and her add, but that can be risky since you don't want the two to end up tethered. I think once I saw someone use it on the hands, and thought that worked nicely, because at least they didn't explode on us.




Back on topic--running CT with a friend (for his lovely bonus). LotA: We wipe twice to Phelgealskdjfalsdkjfasldkf's (however you spell his name) Ancient Flare because standing on pads is hard. Syrcus Tower went smoothly; no complaints there (except the MT locked out half of our alliance on Xande, but we managed).

World of Dankness. Oh boy. Angry Mango... so much cleaving; so much death. Typed in chat twice to look away from Mortal Gaze, and, if it still hit you, to touch the glowing pads. What do people do? Get doomed, don't touch pads, and die. I raise them....and they continue to do it again. And again. Good times. We actually had to healer LB3 on him because it was only the tank, myself, and my co-healer alive. Again, good times.

Dragon and Cerberus went fine. No issues there.
But Cloud of Darkness. Oh boy, Cloud of Darkness.
Three wipes.

Why, you ask?
We don't need to stand in the meteors. That totally isn't going to kill the majority of the raid, and cause us to fail the cloud DPS check.
Nope. /s

While a PLD from another alliance and myself were trying to explain mechanics, the tank in my alliance kept pulling the boss. So we were typing on the fly most of the time. Thankfully by the third time we got it down. However, I still had to make use of my Expanded Boles, and we saved the LB3 in case we needed it for either tank or healer LB.

WoD always delivers in terms of wipeage though. Good times.