A Crazy Solution To The Growing Problems of Inadequate Preparation For Duties.

[Kaethra]

I'm going to say this. About 95% of the players in the roulette know how to play their class and role. Funny thing is, even half the 'newbies' you see.. you know the ones that give you bonus tomestones are veterans on alts. The players that do not know what they are doing form a very small percentage. Out of that percentage most of them do not join groups because of that limitation.

So what's the real problem? Laziness.

Why does a DPS need to do a full rotation when the tank, other DPS, and likely healer will easily make up for it?
Why does a tank need to do a full rotation to put out any DPS when there are two others that will carry it. Or move out of AOE when a healer will keep them alive?
Why does a healer need to pay much attention when likely the others will be geared enough to snooze through it?

I've done quite a few roulette in the last month. Gearing up a few classes and see the issue from multiple angles. I've yet to see a player who doesn't know what they are doing in the Duty Finder outside the Leveling Roulette (and even then its only because someone might be learning pulls, playing a class in Sastasha is literally 1-2). Occasionally I get someone who hasn't done a fight before. But they know their class well enough.

From time to time I get a player who exibits issues like you all bring up in repost after repost. But usually a quick chiding gets them to play properly. Those that don't get booted. Seriously people, just use the vote kick. The devs gave you a tool, use it. Stop being a lazy player yourself. You're no different than the players you complain about.

Maybe players like the OP should be forced into a Solo Duty where they have to pick the NPC that is slacking off to be vote kicked. Because apparently that's function that eludes everyone these days.

[Dzian]

I'm going to say this. About 95% of the players in the roulette know how to play their class and role. Funny thing is, even half the 'newbies' you see.. you know the ones that give you bonus tomestones are veterans on alts. The players that do not know what they are doing form a very small percentage. .

Not so sure about this. I mean sure 95% of players might be able to play there roll well enough to clear a dungeon or something at the absoulute minimum of difficulty... but that bar is increbibly low to be realistic. a blm could literally /follow a healer with auto fire button set to blizzard 2 and he'd be doing enough to clear that dungeon... or a dragoon could literally just 123 123 123 and do nithing else and still do enough to clear low end content..

IMO if what you say is correct and 95% of players know how to play there jobs effectively then the "huge skill gap" that Yoshi is addressing wouldn't really exist because if it's only 5% of the player base that's having a problem it wouldn't be a primary issue..

I'd also say that if 95% of players knew how to play there jobs effectively the "no bonus" culture wouldn't exist either. because ya know if there's a 95% chance that bonus person knows how to play there job most people would be a lot more willing to give them a chance...

and the success rate of various learning clear and even farm parties would be that much higher...

you also get things like dun scaith. if 95% of an alliance knew how to play there jobs effectively that first boss would be dead everytime by the time the 4th square hit the ground. yet in how many groups do you see 6-7 maybe even all 8 squares on the floor..

same goes for the second boss. if 95% of the alliance were effective at there jobs he'd be dead before the second fire/water puddles come up...

as for class / job quests they really do nothing to teach you how to play your job. if I use paladin as an example i'm a tank. and in every job quest if I actually try and do my job. i.e tank. i'm gonna be dead and I'm gonna fail.... instead some npc does some stuff while I run a round a smack a couple of tiny mobs... teaches me nothing about my job.

[Dualgunner]

as for class / job quests they really do nothing to teach you how to play your job. if I use paladin as an example i'm a tank. and in every job quest if I actually try and do my job. i.e tank. i'm gonna be dead and I'm gonna fail.... instead some npc does some stuff while I run a round a smack a couple of tiny mobs... teaches me nothing about my job.

It is sort of weird how they give you the new skill *after* the quest. I'd give it before the quest and have the quest revolve around how to use it and the other skills you learned while leveling to get the quest.

[Kaethra]

you also get things like dun scaith. if 95% of an alliance knew how to play there jobs effectively that first boss would be dead everytime by the time the 4th square hit the ground. yet in how many groups do you see 6-7 maybe even all 8 squares on the floor..

A tutorial isn't going to change that fact. In your perfect world, players would play to the 85-90% of their potential at the very least. They'd have the mechanics memorized with a photographic memory. They'd have their material melded with the best for their job and role.

Issue with that, is if you required players with those qualifications. You'd have a very long queue. Long enough that you'd be picking and choosing people in a PF to make sure it went well. Then at that point.. what's the point of the queue?

The players you speak about that cause a boss to go longer than you think it should. Apparently know their stuff well enough to complete the dungeon in question.

Don't get me wrong. I probably get more frustrated than you do when players are less than what I believe they need to be. As my friends on my TS server can attest, there's a serious amount of foul language that comes from my end when I do some of that content. However.. newbies and ignorance I can deal with. Newbies aren't newbies forever, they can learn. Ignorance can usually be righted through enlightenment.

Those players aren't the problem. They learn, they get better.

The lazy PoS's are the problem. They've learned, but don't care. They know what they are supposed to do, but don't do it. They let other's deal with adds, mechanics, or whatever instead of taking initiative.

Tutorials won't help them. They'll play 110% to get past the content that they need to on their own. But when they run with us, its back to what they intended to do anyway. I know it feels wrong and almost alien to think that player beside you doesn't give a flying crap. But that's the honest truth. They're there to get their loot and you're a means to get it for them.

Feels crappy, I know. But its the truth.

[Shougun]

I'm going to say this. About 95% of the players in the roulette know how to play their class and role. Funny thing is, even half the 'newbies' you see.. you know the ones that give you bonus tomestones are veterans on alts. The players that do not know what they are doing form a very small percentage. Out of that percentage most of them do not join groups because of that limitation

I think people believe they know how to play but I disagree that 95% and are just lazy and know how, besides how would you even produce that statistic? You can only know people are doing poorly not why, unless you interview everyone..

Anecdotally the people I've talked to that were doing very poorly were unsure how to play, meaning they did not quite know what was to be done and just faked it till you make it sort of thing (or thought their method was good, but was obviously far from it, they adjusted when they saw their mistake - usually in my experience). A better tutorial would have helped them (job quests being massively underutilized opportunities).

[Elim]

I think people believe they know how to play but I disagree that 95% and are just lazy and know how

^^^

Lol. It's very rare to come across DPS that are actually good. Most of the time I beat PUG DPS with my tank or healer.

[Ama_Hamada]

I'm going to say this. About 95% of the players in the roulette know how to play their class and role.

Lolno.
latest example, I was doing leveling roulette where a BLM would single target rotation no matter how much was there. Even after explaining when and how to AoE rotate, they kept doing single. This took hate off the single they where going on from the tank every once in a while as well. The 2 other people, the other DPS and tank said this was fine. that right there is 75% do not have a clue. MNKs, BRD and MCH in roulettes tend to have the highest bad percentage. I got 2 DFs in a row for my relic with bad mnks, then the last one I got was a good one.

If you want to take expert roulette I seen meny, meny runs where it was ultra slow due to bad brds.

[Moonlite]

snip.

Single and AOE target should probably not be discussed. That is a play style difference. You can pull 100 mobs and some players will not aoe. Not because skill but because they aren't into the aoe go fast mentality. Also if blm was pulling hate off tank he was surely doing decent damage. Conflicitng playstyles = vote kick.

[Ama_Hamada]

Single and AOE target should probably not be discussed. That is a play style difference. You can pull 100 mobs and some players will not aoe. Not because skill but because they aren't into the aoe go fast mentality. Also if blm was pulling hate off tank he was surely doing decent damage. Conflicitng playstyles = vote kick.

what was funny is even though the other 2 was chewing me out for not healing, the vote kick passed on the blm, then they voke kick me out of spite i guess. But no that is not decent damage, anyone can pull hate in aoe situation if they are going all out in a single target. For mnk it is def a skill issue because you have to know how wave it and keep tp up.

For the blm I think it was simply a troll because they did not say anything to me and they did aoe rotate once on a boss with 3 adds then continued to single (when I pointed it out and still said nothing)

[Kaethra]

latest example, I was doing leveling roulette where a BLM would single target rotation no matter how much was there. Even after explaining when and how to AoE rotate, they kept doing single.

Thanks for proving my point. You honestly think a tutorial would change that? You just told us that BLM what to do and he went 'lol singledps'. He'd do the same after a tutorial.