Why everyone wants do PotD speed run?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Well. The question is.Why people wants speed run EVERY SINGLE THING in the game?

If you ask me, at some point the playerbase accepted "speed" as a measure of how skilled the group is. Sure, performing your role/job well usually does make things go faster, but that's like saying you're "skilled" because you can down Garuda Ex in under 2 minutes now. Speedrunning itself isn't an issue if everyone's intent on doing it and primed to do so.

But I'll be brutally honest: Speedrunning, the "I just wanna get it done and over with so I can move on to other things" mindset, and the "DF mentality" are the reason we have boring, faceroll "Expert" dungeons now. Someone mentioned before that no one bothers with side rooms, and they detract from exploring the dungeon. . . Are you really "exploring" when you're just trying to beeline for the exit? Conjecture, I know, but really think about that. You want interesting dungeons, you want worthwhile loot, but you "just wanna get it done and over with", thus speedrunning becomes the implied standard. . . I dunno man. Something's got to give there.

I'll level with you though, PotD isn't exactly the most interesting content after the first time, even if it is the best way to level, and maybe some of us - myself included - don't really have that much time to fully explore, and thus are not 99/99. But speedrunning, at least as a forced standard, really seems the big reason so much sub-raid, endgame content is mind-numbingly easy which drives people to want to blaze through it, which makes devs continue to make content mind-numbingly easy, which. . . get the idea?

Oh, and the "make a PF for what you want" argument is flat, lame, and needs to just go away. How about just, oh I dunno, communicating and being civil/compromising toward one another when matched randomly in the DF. Crazy concept, I know. But you'd be amazed how far a little kindness and consideration might get you.

Like i said I DON'T LIKE PVP, so stop trying to force me to play PvP when i don't wan't play PvP.

Let me first clarify that I'm in no way picking on you. But I wanted to expand on this just a bit, as a PvPer. You say you've never tried it, but you don't like it? I'm assuming PvP in other games perhaps, yes? That's fine and there's nothing wrong with not being interested, but I will say that it'd be unfair to simply write it off based on experiences from another game. At the same time, for us PvPers, this is a bit of a sensitive topic, similar to how you may be sensitive about your efforts to progress going overlooked.

Forever ago, people just decided - without trying it - that FFXIV PvP was bad (I'll admit, it's not perfect, but I enjoy it), full of toxic players just looking to ruin your day, and "a waste of development resources". For those of us that actually did step in and found something we love, we've been stuck dealing with that terrible stigma that we know is largely untrue, but without getting people to actually, legitimately try, we have nothing to offer when slammed with the burden of proof. It literally becomes our word vs theirs. A small community's experience vs the larger body's word of mouth. . . Countless times I've heard someone just easily rattle off untrue statements about PvP, yet I can literally see and hear the switch turn off in people's heads the moment I mention my actual experiences. Again, no one HAS to like it, and I'm not looking to sway your opinion on it, but the issue is people just unilaterally dislike it without even trying. As I said before, it's a sensitive subject for us.

[WeekendSoja]

Just go with the speed run mentality, I will tell you from personally experiencing it 3 weeks ago, from level 30-60, aether level at zero, I leveled my alts monk in POTD and approximately by level 49-51 I was capped on aether pools...

This was fine with only speed running, RNG may vary but it won't be like you'll hit 60 on a leveling job before you cap AP...and you don't need a level 60 weapon at level 31...

Even for other level 60 jobs, just speed run and gather xp and AP at the fastest rate.

[Feidam]

Just go with the speed run mentality,

Why should so,done just go with it? I mean some folks like to get the accursed hordes too. I seen groups get an intuition and state that unless we cross it's path leave it alone if the cairn of passage is open. My response to that is usually BS! Speed running isn't necessarily a bad thing I do it too. However, if someone comes into the group that does not want to speed run I vote no speed run. I am not going to deprive someone from doing the content. If you are not willing to run the content as intended do not queue. Is my philosophy and opinion.

[Ferth]

Why should so,done just go with it? I mean some folks like to get the accursed hordes too. I seen groups get an intuition and state that unless we cross it's path leave it alone if the cairn of passage is open. My response to that is usually BS! Speed running isn't necessarily a bad thing I do it too. However, if someone comes into the group that does not want to speed run I vote no speed run. I am not going to deprive someone from doing the content. If you are not willing to run the content as intended do not queue. Is my philosophy and opinion.

How is "speed running" running the content not as intended? Where does it say that the intention is that you need to clear the entire floor before you move to the next? Why would it even let us go to the next floor if that was the intention?

Furthermore why should one person get to hold three people hostage because they want something different? If the majority of the group wants to explore for chests, fine. If the majority wants to speed run, that should be fine, too.

Ideally it would be nice if everyone understood the math behind why speed running, specifically in Palace of the Dead, is not a bad thing, but I get it... Math is hard. So I don't press the issue. But really... there is nothing you can get from PotD being slow and methodical that you can't also get by going quickly and efficiently, but going quickly and efficiently also gets you more clear rewards for the over-all time you spend in the content.

[Kaethra]

How is "speed running" running the content not as intended? Where does it say that the intention is that you need to clear the entire floor before you move to the next? Why would it even let us go to the next floor if that was the intention?

One could argue that speed running is the intent. Why else would there be a timer if not to see how fast you can go? You can also fail a duty if you let the time elapse.

Fastest I've ran a set of 10 floors in a PUG is 12 minutes. Lets see if I can get one under 10.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Furthermore why should one person get to hold three people hostage because they want something different? If the majority of the group wants to explore for chests, fine. If the majority wants to speed run, that should be fine, too..

This is the direction the discussion usually takes. Just as you can't force anyone to speed run, you can't force them not to. No one's right, no one's wrong.

Where people go wrong is the moment they decide for the other person how it's gonna go. Are you the one guy who forcefully slows down the group? Or perhaps the healer that stops healing in protest/spite of not getting your way? Are you the guy that silently takes off before anyone even manages a "hi"? Because THAT'S the person who's wrong. And to the people saying "just deal with it" or "just accept it", no. That's what kills people's desire to run content. That's what kills queues and forces people to ONLY run anything with their cliques. And while there's nothing even wrong with that, it's overall unhealthy for content that's currently limited to just your server.

Best thing to do - I know this sounds crazy - is to communicate. Ask for what you want. If everyone's cool, great. If not, politely excuse yourself. No harm, no foul.

[Kaethra]

Where people go wrong is the moment they decide for the other person how it's gonna go.

Someone has to make a decision.

If three people want to get silvers, and One wants to speedrun. Which is it going to be? Think about it for a moment. If you have three players who do NOT want to speed run. It makes them irate, it makes them upset, or makes them physically ill, whatever. And the same thing for the one. Who decides?

Well we know the answer, the majority in this case. But you're going on about neither party is right or wrong. And I'll agree neither is. But does the one have the right to tick off three people because of their playstyle?

What do you do when someone's mere presence is infringing on others?

Someone makes a decision.

Because -that- is the right thing to do. That's called initiative and something that is unfamiliar to normal people. Anyone who works in any sort of professional environment knows what that is. You don't hold up the whole because of feelings or attitude. Someone takes charge, steps up, and initiates a solution for the betterment of the whole.

This doesn't mean one guy gets screwed against a majority. Sometimes concessions can be made. Depends on everyone's disposition. But one has to be made. When you enter a dungeon through the queue. You have made a statement that entails you will be working with 3 random players. You have made a covenant that states you intend to complete the event. Everything else is second to that.

When a player sits in a corner because they wish to speed run. They violate that covenant because they are not ensuring the completion of the goal they agreed to. Same thing with the one player going for every chest at risk to the group.

Someone makes a decision to what type of run it will be. Once the decision is made. Complete the objective. And let's be honest. This thread would never have been started nor gone on for as many pages as it has if most people stepped up and led a group.

Some of you are saying to communicate. This is different. This is a one-sided conversation. What you are suggesting is a 2-way conversation coming to a consensus. There is no consensus. You have a goal. Complete it. It will say Duty Failed if you don't. There is no consensus to a plan, you didn't step up if someone else decided the dungeon. I know this statement pricks at your sensibilities. You've experienced mostly the effects of an unorganized mob in most of your career and experience in games.

Think about that.

When you join a PUG, do you talk? No you run it the way its always been run. If its your first time, you might ask how others do it. But you do it the way everyone else does it. But in PotD (and some dungeons) many of you see two ways to run it. Speed run, and Silver farm. Both have their uses. Now we have players who have different 'personal goals' joining together. Now they want a consensus.

That's not how that works. That's not how the dungeon was designed. You signed up to complete the objective. So complete the damn objective. Its not that hard. Your personal goal doesn't come before that. The moment people figure that out, is the time when threads like this don't need to be created.

Consensus.. there is no consensus. Players have made their choices. You all simply need to make yours.

As for premades, what they do is their business.

[Bloody]

I don't agree in saying that people can't come to a consensus through communication in a DF PUG or mesh personal and game-imposed goals... but written like a good piece of persuasive writing to be sure. I do agree with the overall message about the state of the game and mentalities/behaviors, especially the portion about initiative and decision-making, though. If people don't step up and decide to communicate then there will never be consensus between groups, at which point you do hit the wall of "complete the damn objective" because nobody cares enough to communicate. I guess my take on it (piggybacking off of yours a bit, Kaethra) is that people need to stop thinking inside their boxes and picture the bigger box: your group-mates and the designed objectives, not just your personal "needs" (which are really just wants).

[ToniRomo]

"I rather look for chests because I have all jobs at 60 and there is a limiting factor of grabbing a shire weapon for all my jobs because of a 900 (formerly 450 cap). I can get a 255 weapon in a day, not a week or in the past, 3 weeks. You telling people they shouldn't need silvers so that gives you a right to harass people is wrong. Exp off something else, game hands you exp, you do not need to be harassing people over 5 minutes. If you cannot cooperate with people, do not do deep."

The amount of people farming POTD for weapons because they have every job at 60 they are trying to equip is probably a very small number. If 3 out of 4 people want to prioritize speed and exp then it sounds like you are the one not cooperating.

Personally I would prioritize exp, but if someone wants to get chests I don't mind. They would have to say something at the start, which I have not seen anyone do.

[Jijifli]

I've learned at this point to just run with the flow. If the party wants to speed run, then screw it, we'll speed run. If someone is running for chests, I'm going to go to help them, even if others won't, because that'll only speed up the process.

Only real exception is when someone is kinda low (like maybe 27/25 or something) and really needs them. That's when I try to convince the party and learn every now and again why I should just turn off party chat.