Why everyone wants do PotD speed run?

[Kaethra]

I used to say, 51-60 is a speed run. Everything else is silver farm. I'm not so sure now. An item level 255 weapon is paltry compared to the other options, some of which aren't much harder to get now.

So here's my advice:

If you want to speed run, use Party Finder.
If you don't want to speed run, use Party Finder.
If you let the queue pick your party, you don't get what you want.

[Ama_Hamada]

I never played PvP and i never will because i don't like PvP.

Scripts? You mean scripts i can get by doing gathering and crafting collectibles?

Also like i already said i CAN'T climb further in Alexander because i'm stuck on Alexander - The Cuff of the Son raid when it's way too hard for me, even i have ilvl255 kinna weapon for my main (i able get it when PotD got added where everyone actually wanted collect silver chests) and my main ilvl at this moment is 263.

O_o
https://gyazo.com/b833e6a77c179b593cf5b88a093df698

You do not know what scripts are? the green tokens?

A6? how are you stuck on a6? anything before a9 is faceroll (yeah i know all normal is faceroll but a6???), just make a pf and shout for clearing those (what I did, being an alt it was hard finding people, lol but some people like the first time bonus)

If you have a 255 weapon why are you talking about you are stuck on a 200 weapon for O_o, in case this is for a second job, then you should be able pvp for it easily for a 235. If you can't talk to people to do chests in deep, just play pvp for a bit for a 235. It really does not matter if you like it or not? O_o it does not take many matches. If you only do the daily and get 3rd place each time, it is 3 days (1500 each) If you do the dailies and win twice, meaning just 2 front lines, you get the 235 weapon. You can do it in a day doing lets see... doing 6 runs if all are 3rd place. If you first place 3 of them ( one being daily) 2000+1000+1000=4000 = weapon. so your looking at 6 matches max for the weapon, why does it matter if you do not like doing it if it takes so few.

If you cant talk to people, cant buy a 250, can't make shout/pf to clear a6+ or make relic? (keep in mind i am an alt and I am going to have one in the next 2 weeks and I got it off pure dailies, no large grinds, the last update made sands a joke. The only grind I have to end up doing is lights. For the 74 umbrites, pure dailies of the past, same with unideds and everything else.) then I gotta say, no one here can help you this point. Also a6 is 200 avg entry, you extremely outgear it then you got echo on top of that, its complete faceroll. So my SCH has the 270 shire, while my SMN will have the 275 relic soon. I am not even sure what to do with scripts anymore =/

You can't just have a game completely hand you gear cuz you do not try at all?

[Ferth]

Which is why I said you make the most efficient activity "doing it all". I covered that in the other post (and also talked that all needs should be considered, including light farming). People will /always/ go for efficiency, that is unavoidable, but you can change the bare minimum level.

I agree in the current standard designing interesting things, especially "options", would be ignored - because of how content is rewarded. But they could change it so that bringing the dungeon to full completion is the most rewarding thing, then they open up making more interesting content as something they can do that wouldn't be a waste of their time.

Right, But what I am saying is this Dev Team won't do that.

[Shougun]

Right, But what I am saying is this Dev Team won't do that.

Fair enough lol. I was hoping they will do neat things like that in the new Deep Dungeon though, they have talked about mixing up the objectives for that content - may be a start of them thinking about stuff like that haha.

To me the Satasha example just says they didn't make it worth while, and as a game people look for rewards - some go in that room solely for the achievement but its not a big enough reward for it to really matter.. I've seen someone kicked for trying cause everyone else wanted to speed through. Linear dungeons solves this sort of issue definitely, but personally love seeing content have options (even if I know I'm going to take it already) and also like to see variation (like puzzles will normally be disliked after their charm wears off the first time, so that being a "sometimes" thing would be better).

As you said, all that matters is the reward. If the reward is the finish and that is it.. then, doesn't matter if they add cool stuff as you said - it will be ignored if it doesn't have to do with the finish. (Which is why I focused on changing how the reward worked).

[Talraen]

Yea... and I covered all of that already. This is why I said you make it more efficient use of their time to do this side content, but also make it shift with that advantage. So the side room in Satasha could be a treasure room, a trap room, a mini boss (but again making sure efficiency = doing more content). Also the other point was simple (they have shown they can switch out entities on a map based on circumstances) changes that don't take much effort (well maybe a mini boss might), each one is telling players to explore but at the same time the truth is it is "optional" even though people will play it like its more mandatory. (Although that part also covered just making a dungeon varied by even making linear routes change sometimes, just so people go "What.. what happened tot he bridge we normally use?. . . I guess we'll go into this cave instead").

So, the side rooms in Sastasha are treasure rooms, that doesn't make anyone do them. And again, letting seedlings hatch in Aurum Vale is a huge benefit that costs very little time (literally several seconds over the entire dungeon if you do it right), and people often still don't do it, even if they're not level-capped. That directly disproves your entire premise.

For that matter, I keep seeing "speed run" strategies in Castrum that actually make the dungeon take longer. Here's a protip: Cid doesn't start moving toward the rear cannons until you take out the guys just past the front cannons. If you bring those guys to the back cannons, the fighting takes less time, but you have to wait longer for Cid, causing the overall completion time to be longer. Yet people still do it constantly. Because people are really not good at nuance or paying attention. Nothing I've ever seen in any MMO makes me think people are going to put any thought into a dungeon after the first few runs of it.

However, none of that even matters, because in a vertical progression MMO like FFXIV, you simply can't provide an evergreen incentive. Treasure? Will be obsolete by the next patch. Experience? Irrelevant for people running roulette at max level. Gil? If that worked as an incentive, tanks wouldn't be the only class that's ever offered preferred status in roulettes. Extra tomestones? Only worth the effort when the current relic weapon step is a tomestone grind. What, specifically, do you propose to offer that is actually going to make optional content permanently worth doing?

[Shougun]

So, the side rooms in Sastasha are treasure rooms, that doesn't make anyone do them. And again, letting seedlings hatch in Aurum Vale is a huge benefit that costs very little time (literally several seconds over the entire dungeon if you do it right), and people often still don't do it, even if they're not level-capped. That directly disproves your entire premise.
However, none of that even matters, because in a vertical progression MMO like FFXIV, you simply can't provide an evergreen incentive. Treasure? Will be obsolete by the next patch. Experience? Irrelevant for people running roulette at max level. Gil? If that worked as an incentive, tanks wouldn't be the only class that's ever offered preferred status in roulettes. Extra tomestones? Only worth the effort when the current relic weapon step is a tomestone grind. What, specifically, do you propose to offer that is actually going to make optional content permanently worth doing?

Most groups I've been in have let the seeds pop, so I'm not sure what you have but it at least in my experience not disprove anything - also unfortunately sometimes not everyone is there for EXP. The one time I had someone refuse to let them pop was because they were capped, and therefore their efficiency was directly hampered by waiting.

As for the second example efficiency is a value of time and averages, if people make the content easier to handle its to increase their efficiency (rather than having to deal with mistakes or discuss anything). I don't find it shocking nor do I mind they've done it, since people like "easy and fast". Speed running (the idea of maximum efficiency) will never die or go anywhere at least until we get computers to play the games for us lol. I'm strictly talking about bare minimum speed running as becoming the most inefficient use of your time (since I feel like this hurts design, and players) and 100% completion as the most efficient (but also suggesting variations and things to mix up that 100% idea, like a "mini" infusion of deep dungeons into regular dungeons - bit like Ferth just added below).

The Satasha treasure room as is not reward enough (yet) but I feel the design comes from a good heart (just needs improved); I've discussed the reward needs to be in context of the people in it. If I'm maxed I don't want some BS exp or 10 gil item (most chests early on are pretty bad lol). I addressed all of this already.

The reward must relate to the player, this is of course natural and you may have skimmed that part of my post (or I edited it while you were making a comment lol). In a simple term I addressed the side objectives via a token that could be transformed into a value you seek, like light, tomes, exp, gil, so that no matter your situation if you joined the content for something you're probably going to get it and maximum efficiency would involve taking maximum advantage of the dungeon. In fact things like lights could be based on the side content entirely, so finishing the dungeon only ensures you obtain your side rewards (this means high level players going back will always make sure new players get the full experience). For glamour, doing the side content would be the drop - so its already baked into just doing it. Of course the values of the reward received need to be considered based on the circumstance (like if you were in a roulette that put you in a low level content) or if you just queued straight up for Satasha unsynced (with some proper UI and simple color/tiers you could display that information well enough for an average understanding of whats what).

[Ferth]

Fair enough lol. I was hoping they will do neat things like that in the new Deep Dungeon though, they have talked about mixing up the objectives for that content - may be a start of them thinking about stuff like that haha.

To me the Satasha example just says they didn't make it worth while, and as a game people look for rewards - some go in that room solely for the achievement but its not a big enough reward for it to really matter.. I've seen someone kicked for trying cause everyone else wanted to speed through. Linear dungeons solves this sort of issue definitely, but personally love seeing content have options (even if I know I'm going to take it already) and also like to see variation (like puzzles will normally be disliked after their charm wears off the first time, so that being a "sometimes" thing would be better).

As you said, all that matters is the reward. If the reward is the finish and that is it.. then, doesn't matter if they add cool stuff as you said - it will be ignored if it doesn't have to do with the finish. (Which is why I focused on changing how the reward worked).

I completely agree with you. Years ago in Lord of The Rings Online they had end game content where the first time you entered for the week you had a series of tasks that took you to various places throughout the instance and each task increased the rewards you would get. Not everyone got the same tasks so the first few times a week you would run something you'd end up doing all sorts of things to help others finish specific tasks. Then when your tasks were all done you could still run the content for the baseline rewards.

Sometimes the tasks were just kill x amount of a certain mob, other times it was "kill Boss Y but don't let this happen." It was a lot of fun, and it kept you on your toes.

[Talraen]

Most groups I've been in have let the seeds pop, so I'm not sure what you have but it does not disprove anything - also not everyone is there for EXP. The one time I had someone refuse to let them pop was because they were capped, and therefore their efficiency was directly hampered by waiting.

We clearly have very different experiences in AV, lol.

As for your second example efficiency is a value of time and averages, if people make the content easier to handle its to increase their efficiency (rather than having to deal with mistakes or discuss anything). I don't find it shocking nor do I mind they've done it. Speed running (the idea of maximum efficiency) will never die or go anywhere. I'm strictly talking about bare minimum speed running as becoming the most inefficient use of your time and 100% completion as the most efficient (but also suggesting variations and things to mix up that 100% idea, like a "mini" infusion of deep dungeons into regular dungeons - bit like Ferth just added below).

The Satasha treasure room as I have said many times is not reward enough, I already discussed the reward needs to be in context of the people in it. If I'm maxed I don't want some BS exp or 10 gil item (most chests early on are pretty bad lol). I addressed all of this already.

The reward must relate to the player, this is obvious and you may have skimmed that part of my post if you didn't notice I had already discussed it. In a simple term I addressed the side objectives via a token that could be transformed into a value you seek, like light, tomes, exp, gil, so that no matter your situation if you joined the content for something you're probably going to get it and maximum efficiency would involve taking maximum advantage of the dungeon. In fact things like lights could be based on the side content entirely, so finishing the dungeon only ensures you obtain your side rewards (this means high level players going back will always make sure new players get the full experience). For glamour, doing the side content would be the drop - so its already baked into just doing it. Of course the values of the reward received need to be considered based on the circumstance (like if you were in a roulette that put you in a low level content) or if you just queued straight up for Satasha unsynced (with some proper UI and simple color/tiers you could display that information well enough for an average understanding of whats what).

Fair enough, I apologize for skimming. These are all good ideas, but I'm left with one overarching question: why make this optional? If it's just a part of the dungeon, the result is the same as what you want; if it's optional, then some people are going to skip it, which will be even more aggravating because they will be objectively wrong to do so. What's the upside?

[LunaFaye]

Speed run PotD is the fastest way to level. Most groups spam floors 51-60. Speed runners will not pick every single silver chest but they will take ones that are close by. With higher floors (61+) you'll find more people going after silver chests.

not only for leveling purposes. Fresh level 60 without having any other class or a support system of friends, can use these speed runs to get a quick 2k lore and a real quick weekly scripture cap. Even a veteran can profit from that, in case people are still doing relic, well can't get tomes easier if you do not want to spam alex or arf. Needed to add that ,otherwise I do agree with your post

[Ama_Hamada]

not only for leveling purposes. Fresh level 60 without having any other class or a support system of friends, can use these speed runs to get a quick 2k lore and a real quick weekly scripture cap. Even a veteran can profit from that, in case people are still doing relic, well can't get tomes easier if you do not want to spam alex or arf. Needed to add that ,otherwise I do agree with your post

PvP is a better way to start off in my view since getting 235 gear is quick while on top of getting lore and scripts.

Also library hard can be done in 10-12 mins for 100 lore.