Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[Dzian]

The image is of the duty finder window, not the queue window. The one that you have to look at before you queue. .

I think you're misunderstanding how the duty finder works.

if you've got 7 people already queud for a duty and none of them have bonus and the 8th person that does have bonus joins the queue where does you're notification pop up then??

or if you've got 17dps in the queue and 4 of them have bonusbut might not be front of the queue what happens then. maybe they weren't front of the queue but someone missed the ready check and now that bonus guy has taken the empty spot........ where does the newbie notification come up now?

i can see how it might work for full parties using the party finder. but when you look at individuals using the duty finder your suggestion just wouldnt work.

so you want to abolish the raid finder because you think its uneccessary but your idea would not work in the duty finder. party finder groups might find it useful i admit. but you're talking about abolishing the raid finder and using the duty finder instead but it wouldn't work as my examples above show.

unless you're going to give them first 7 people queuing the option to queue with cleared people only. in which case its no different to the raid finder at all.

your suggestipn seems to recreate the whole reason the raid finder was added in the first place

[Rongway]

Irrelevancies

What part of full premade party don't you understand?

[Dzian]

What part of full premade party don't you understand?

ok you don't understand the problem.

the raid finder was added because it was impossible for people to clear content in the duty finder thus no one used it. and those that did would queue for an hour for thordan get in wipe in 4 mins and disband and go back to the queue... it was much the same in arr if you tried to duty finder coil or extreme primals back then that is the reason they added the raid finder.

party finder and premades are completely irrelevant at this point... the raid finder exists to help indiviuals not premade parties find players that fit there skills and abilities....

whether that be helping individuals finding players thant can reliably farm content they've already cleared or helping individuals find players willing to learn content they haven't cleared....

so if you want to get rid of raid finder you need to put something else in it's place that offers that functionality to the player

[Sida]

ok you don't understand the problem.

the raid finder was added because it was impossible for people to clear content in the duty finder thus no one used it. and those that did would queue for an hour for thordan get in wipe in 4 mins and disband and go back to the queue... it was much the same in arr if you tried to duty finder coil or extreme primals back then that is the reason they added the raid finder.

That might be slightly mispresenting the point. While it is true that before RF all raids and ex primals were in the DF, it was not possible to queue into the latest raid or ex primals without full party. It was technical limitation, not just practical one. You were forced to gather one, either by having a static or, indeed, through PF. However both of these methods were limited within the server drastically cutting the pool of possible participants. Raid finder was an attempt to give change to break this server barrier for the content that was, rightfully, considered too hard to be released to totally random parties. Howevr while announcing "practise from start" or "after adds" or similar worked to a point in PF those different options in RF didn't achieve the same result, they only divided the pool of non completers into different queues that never got through. This the only usable part of the RF was the ultimate toggle for completion.

Cross server PF is the second take to the same situation. Does it force people to be a bit social to actually look for a farm party? Yes it does. But that's not different from the same limitations in place before RF.

[bswpayton]

I think you're misunderstanding how the duty finder works.

if you've got 7 people already queud for a duty and none of them have bonus and the 8th person that does have bonus joins the queue where does you're notification pop up then??

You seem to be pretty informed on the game and I would really like to know why the primals started going with these raid heavy mechanics instead of just more individual effort fights. Before sep there was nothing I recalled that required nearly as much coordination before it with the tethers and the towers or the blue puddle. And I would say sep is def not harder than say even ramuh extreme which yea had its dps checks but wasnt something you had to have voice chat for.

Same thing with all the stacking in Sophia and doing everything as one unit like these arent raids then why the hell are the mechanics like this it really pisses me off. You can still make content challening without putting so much on team work when most people will be doing this content with randoms because they dont have statics are friends to do things with. These hw primals had way to much grouping and way to many if one person screws up everyone's dead mechanics which thus feeds the no bonus community instead of having them based on what one does as an individual in the group.

[Talraen]

You seem to be pretty informed on the game and I would really like to know why the primals started going with these raid heavy mechanics instead of just more individual effort fights. Before sep there was nothing I recalled that required nearly as much coordination before it with the tethers and the towers or the blue puddle. And I would say sep is def not harder than say even ramuh extreme which yea had its dps checks but wasnt something you had to have voice chat for.

Same thing with all the stacking in Sophia and doing everything as one unit like these arent raids then why the hell are the mechanics like this it really pisses me off. You can still make content challening without putting so much on team work when most people will be doing this content with randoms because they dont have statics are friends to do things with. These hw primals had way to much grouping and way to many if one person screws up everyone's dead mechanics which thus feeds the no bonus community instead of having them based on what one does as an individual in the group.

Ramuh Extreme required a lot of coordination to make sure terror was consistently cleansed. It didn't require voice chat, but it certainly helped. And the same is true for Sophia: everyone can learn the mechanics, at which point voice chat isn't really necessary. I haven't done Sephirot or Zurvan extreme, but the other HW extremes seemed pretty much on par with ARR's mechanical complexity to me.

[bswpayton]

Ramuh Extreme required a lot of coordination to make sure terror was consistently cleansed. It didn't require voice chat, but it certainly helped. And the

I do not recall such a stacking mechanic in arr anywhere, and you may not need a voice chat for sophia but it is punishing if the stacking mechanics arent done properly. In sep if one person screws up tethers its pretty much a reset, in zurvan if one person screws up soar or two then its a done deal. I dont see this anywhere in the other primals , there are things you have to do in shiva extreme like spreading etc but three people could die and you can still recover. Leviathan there is no such group activity at all, not even in titan extreme its all on individual effort, but when you put in mechanics where one person can ruin the whole run you will get many parties with the no bonus or dont join us mentality.

[Vidu]

You seem to be pretty informed on the game and I would really like to know why the primals started going with these raid heavy mechanics instead of just more individual effort fights. Before sep there was nothing I recalled that required nearly as much coordination before it with the tethers and the towers or the blue puddle. And I would say sep is def not harder than say even ramuh extreme which yea had its dps checks but wasnt something you had to have voice chat for.

Even if certain mechanics are more an individual effort there were mechanics way before Seph Ex that required the whole party to pay attention - and if one person messed up, it could mean a wipe.

Garuda EX - Kill spiny to early - the whole raid is dead. One person (or even one Egi, always lovely) was enough to mess that up. (Also: stack in the bubble to avoid damage - not so different from stacking to share damage, right?)
Titan EX - people used to bait the puddles, specially the doppel-ones in the last phase. Proper stacking and simutaionsly dodging was required to dodge them.
Ifrit EX - Nails were killed in a specific order, to make sure that they all died while no one was to close to the healer that had this bomb-thing. Theter out two people together, who had to stay clsoe to each other. Ifrit charges required the whole group - except the one bomb-healer, careful! - to move together.
King Mog EX - aaaah, beautiful! No one kills a moggle early, please! Watch out - is there someone else attacking the moggle your chewing on? Is someone interrupting that BLM - or do you risk it to give it a slap and eventually mess it up for everyone? Also: Did you make sure that there was at least one dps close to the paladin, to avoid both healers getting confused? (That mechanic targets the three people closest to the paladin and puts this moggle-confuse on them - one will hopefully be the tank tanking the paladin, the two others shouldnt be both healers...)
Leviathan EX - Whos getting the shield-thingie? Is everyone attacking the adds? And who the hell is pushing Levi down when he really shouldnt take anymore damage?! (Granted, this one most likely requires not a lot of effort when it comes to coordination)
Ramuh EX - KING of coordination! Do tanks need orbs? Should the party clear them? Is it safe to break the theter - or do we have to let tanks them first because thats more important? Is someone getting the charmed people? Did both of them made it to A or not? (And why is that dragoon standing next to me? Aaaaaah, ramuh will kil... ah, yeah, dragoon dead, cool)
Shiva EX - Stack behind her to share sword, dont stack for staff and ice puddles. Everyone make sure they got their safespot for that. Stack behind her to bait avalanche, BUT! make sure you move out of that if you dont have the blue mark!

For HW-primals...

I cant really think about mechanics like that for Bismarck and Ravana - Bismarck because it probably has non and Ravana, because its been ages since I've done the fight properly... and I dont have it down as much as the ARR-primals. However:

Thordan EX - Get your towers! Stack infront of the healer! Stack with the marker - on the tank, please, but dont stack when you have the other marker! Granted, they said they overdid it with Thordan...

...I can go through the other HW-primals, if you like? But let me tell you this: All fights are pretty scripted. You can learn them by heart and if everyone knows whats happening, no team coordination is required, because everyone know what they have to do and where they have to be at any given time. Stacking in Sephirot? Easly an individual effort - you just have to know where you have to stand. Can one person mess that up easly for the whole group and wipe them? Sure - but that was already the case with the very first EX-primal, Garuda. Now, that everyone is either doing ARR-primals unsyched or way overgeared you dont see a lot of mechanics anymore. No surprise that it seems that there are non and that those primals never required coordination - when they did, infact. A year from now, the towers and stacking in Seph wont matter anymore either. Healers will be able to heal through the damage and he will be dead before the blue puddles even have a chance to mess with you.
Primals are simply not a solo-challenge. If you want a solo-challenge playing an MMO is probably a bad idea.

I do not recall such a stacking mechanic in arr anywhere, and you may not need a voice chat for sophia but it is punishing if the stacking mechanics arent done properly. In sep if one person screws up tethers its pretty much a reset, in zurvan if one person screws up soar or two then its a done deal. I dont see this anywhere in the other primals , there are things you have to do in shiva extreme like spreading etc but three people could die and you can still recover. Leviathan there is no such group activity at all, not even in titan extreme its all on individual effort, but when you put in mechanics where one person can ruin the whole run you will get many parties with the no bonus or dont join us mentality.

You dont recall those mechanics because you didnt do those fights when they were current content, as you have stated a few times in threads regarding this issue. Today you can recover from three dead people in Shiva EX - but did you know that she has an enragetimer? Actually, she has two - adds have to die fast enough and she gets stacks of her damage up buff (goes up to 16, at 12 you're pretty much fucked - and even if you consider Shiva attractive you dont want that...). To mayn people die - thats about it for the raid.
I've seen Zurvan parties recover from people dying to soar or messing up theters. Two people messing up theters is nasty, but you can still clear the fight.

[bswpayton]

Even if certain mechanics are more an individual effort there were mechanics way before Seph Ex that required the whole party to pay attention - and if one person messed up, it could mean a wipe.

Ill give you some of those trials with maybe ramuh being the most team focused , but the others had very few one mistake everythings over mechanics. I have seen lots of people kill spiny but its still not as bad as the towers in sep, nor the stacks in sophia and def not soar. But I get both sides I understand where people who farm dont want others in their party I totally get it because some people can perfectly do these trails so with such tight mechanics sometimes you cant afford to have someone in your group who makes a mistake. But at this point the content is basicly two months from going unsync and everyone will deem the content is dead so I see no reason why at this point its not ok with op for them to be in df.

Let people who want to get their clears before unsync have them, with the ability to buy birds with totems it will be far more easy to get the birds in hw as opposed to the still rng base horses in Arr primals. So the op really doesnt have an argument there I think a two month window last chance for sync clears is pretty fair. But to the others complaining here I have to say Vidu you were right people join learning groups very fast Ive seen it with almost everyone of mine. The thing I worry about is closing that gap how do you go from learning, to farming I dont know that answer and settle with my clear alone, but I think think thats the bigger question. Because most people will join a learning party from what Ive seen , I just wish it was a way to make it more anonymous I think thats another thing that people like about df , who wants to plaster their name on their whole data center every time they wana do some content.