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  1. #1
    Player
    Preypacer's Avatar
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    Perrina Avolara
    World
    Coeurl
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    Archer Lv 21
    Quote Originally Posted by Tibian View Post
    Jobs should not have their own EXP bar. Why? Because you're already required to level up multiple classes to be functional in any good group/party/raid/dungeon scenario. I don't want to spend my entire life on XIV, pointlessly grinding hours of monotony into my brain via guildleves or simple grinding.

    One of XI's major problems was leveling up everything. First you got to 18 on a class you didn't want to play, then you got to 30 on another class you didn't want to play. Then you unlocked the job you finally wanted to play, but since you don't have a subjob to support that you have to go back and level up another subjob (probably Ninja, which is itself another topic...), and by the time you get back to level 30 you've already done the same content over and over and over and over and over.

    Repetitious and monotonous grinds have no place in XIV. Stop trying to make this game XI-2.

    Keep jobs the way they are currently planned, tied to the class exp.
    Great gross generalizations, Batman.

    "One of its major problems"? FFXI's job system has widely been considered one of its greatest features. The versatility, flexibility and ability to change up your playstyle on the same character was almost unheard of when FFXI launched. Even now, it's not something you often see taken to the degree FFXI took it.

    That you personally didn't enjoy the starting jobs or other jobs in the game was your own issue... There are plenty of people who loved playing RDM, WHM, BLM, THF, MNK or WAR and took them all the way to 75.

    That you didn't enjoy those starting jobs is fine.. that's your personal experience and preference. But don't make the mistake of thinking your own preferences/likes/dislikes were everyone else's as well.
    (12)
    Last edited by Preypacer; 10-24-2011 at 04:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Tibian's Avatar
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    Tibian Rahm
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    Excalibur
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    Leatherworker Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Preypacer View Post
    Great gross generalizations, Batman.

    That you personally didn't enjoy the starting jobs or other jobs in the game was your own issue... There are plenty of people who loved playing RDM, WHM, BLM, THF, MNK or WAR and took them all the way to 75.
    Sadly its not a generalization. I know plenty of players during my stint in XI that didn't enjoy any of the starting classes. It may not be a majority, but it was a significant problem for a lot of people. At least this way, the class you choose to level up contributes to your main job.

    That you didn't enjoy those starting jobs is fine.. that's your personal experience and preference. But don't make the mistake of thinking your own preferences/likes/dislikes were everyone else's as well.
    I agree, I may have had a different outlook on the game if I enjoyed the starting classes a bit more. However the fact that you have to go back and relevel everything in XI was a huge drag. People are already tired of guildleves, and the overall MMO community (outside of XI purists) have moved on from monotonous archaic grinds. If XIV wants to attract new players, they need to move away from poorly designed XI time sinks and overall repetitiveness.

    I feel the armory system is a huge improvement upon XI's flawed character progression. Having jobs with individual EXP bars is just a step backwards.
    (5)

  3. #3
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    Razor's Avatar
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    Vex Blackmarrow
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    Zalera
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Tibian View Post
    One of XI's major problems was leveling up everything. First you got to 18 on a class you didn't want to play, then you got to 30 on another class you didn't want to play. Then you unlocked the job you finally wanted to play, but since you don't have a subjob to support that you have to go back and level up another subjob (probably Ninja, which is itself another topic...), and by the time you get back to level 30 you've already done the same content over and over and over and over and over.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tibian View Post
    Sadly its not a generalization. I know plenty of players during my stint in XI that didn't enjoy any of the starting classes. It may not be a majority, but it was a significant problem for a lot of people. [B]At least this way, the class you choose to level up contributes to your main job.
    Your stance contradicts itself. You are saying that XI's issue was having to level multiple classes (sub jobs). Well first of all sub jobs were only half of your main level, and getting to 37 was a lot easier than getting to 75.

    As a 50 GLA I need MRD to at least 48 for Defender II, CNJ 40+ for Cure III, etc, etc, you get the point. XIV is worse than XI in the respect some classes require you to level multiple classes to their max level in order to just play your main class properly. Even with jobs having their own EXP bar, I'd rather level GLA to 50 and then PLD to 50 than level GLA to 50 and then every other class to 50. Granted, having it auto-to 50 would make this process faster but that is the whole point of this thread which you have failed to address.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alerith View Post
    You could cast while moving, but then you took an arrow to the knee, and must stand still.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Your stance contradicts itself. You are saying that XI's issue was having to level multiple classes (sub jobs). Well first of all sub jobs were only half of your main level, and getting to 37 was a lot easier than getting to 75.

    As a 50 GLA I need MRD to at least 48 for Defender II, CNJ 40+ for Cure III, etc, etc, you get the point. XIV is worse than XI in the respect some classes require you to level multiple classes to their max level in order to just play your main class properly. Even with jobs having their own EXP bar, I'd rather level GLA to 50 and then PLD to 50 than level GLA to 50 and then every other class to 50. Granted, having it auto-to 50 would make this process faster but that is the whole point of this thread which you have failed to address.
    I know right. It's bad enough already.

    And I mean, you will be "levelling" Paladin in FFXIV anyway. But you'll just be doing it through quests.

    Do people seriously think it is better game design to make people grind through boring crap just to play the game? People have said themselves they thought this was an issue with FFXIV. Now they want to exacerbate the issue by having to level the job alongside other classes?

    Quests are a much more interesting form of progression, surely. And I think grinding the base class will be enough to satisfy the crowd that want a "sense of accomplishment" or whatever B.S. reason.
    (4)
    Last edited by ellohwell; 10-24-2011 at 04:56 AM.

  5. #5
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    Razor's Avatar
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    Vex Blackmarrow
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellohwell View Post
    You will be "levelling" Paladin in FFXIV.

    But you'll be judt doing it through quests.

    You think it is better game design to make people grind through boring crap just to play the game? You said yourself you thought this was an issue with FFXIV. Now you want to exacerbate the issue by having to level the job alongside other classes?
    Okay, I'll try make sense for someone like you. Since you clearly can't read, Tibian's issue with XI was leveling classes he did not like. As a Gladiator if I like tanking would I rather A) Level every other class in the game, most of which I have no interest in otherwise I'd have main'd those instead. or B) Spend that time (likely less since a second EXP curve, even if higher than the initial, is going to be less exp than 1.7mil x 6) advancing my ability to tank to a higher level by capping out Paladin? I would much rather chose option B.

    Now of course under the current system I could take my time with gladiator on it's initial trip to 50 making sure I learn how to use every ability to its maximum effectiveness and get lv50 PLD as a reward at the end. But then someone like you could get power leveled to 50 PLD in a day and fail at tanking.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alerith View Post
    You could cast while moving, but then you took an arrow to the knee, and must stand still.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Okay, I'll try make sense for someone like you. Since you clearly can't read, Tibian's issue with XI was leveling classes he did not like. As a Gladiator if I like tanking would I rather A) Level every other class in the game, most of which I have no interest in otherwise I'd have main'd those instead. or B) Spend that time (likely less since a second EXP curve, even if higher than the initial, is going to be less exp than 1.7mil x 6) advancing my ability to tank to a higher level by capping out Paladin? I would much rather chose option B.

    Now of course under the current system I could take my time with gladiator on it's initial trip to 50 making sure I learn how to use every ability to its maximum effectiveness and get lv50 PLD as a reward at the end. But then someone like you could get power leveled to 50 PLD in a day and fail at tanking.
    Basically you want to introduce another problem into the game. That's all I hear, sorry.

    Two wrongs dont make a right.
    (2)

  7. #7
    Player
    Bluetaro's Avatar
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    Leon Lamperouge
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    Hyperion
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    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    I prefer the jobs to be leveled on their own as well, similar to the system in FFXI. I was disappointed to hear that the jobs would be linked to your classes levels, as I was looking forward to party play as a Paladin, Black Mage, and Monk. As it currently stands, I won't have any reason to exp on those jobs except to build spirit bond equipment.
    (0)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    As a 50 GLA I need (you don't NEED it, you want it) MRD to at least 48 for Defender II, CNJ 40+ for Cure III, etc, etc, you get the point. XIV is worse than XI in the respect some classes require (using the term "require" is laughable at best) you to level multiple classes to their max level in order to just play your main class properly(if you are making such pressuptuos claims like this, you are NOT playing the class corectly if you claim it a requirment to level other classes) . Even with jobs having their own EXP bar, I'd rather level GLA to 50 and then PLD to 50 than level GLA to 50 and then every other class to 50. Granted, having it auto-to 50 would make this process faster but that is the whole point of this thread which you have failed to address.
    You really want auto 50 on classes ? I think jobs should not need to be leveled, as they should be an extension of of there class in some manner. With your claims of what is needed to play a class, you in particular need to level any class you want to play just so you can learn to play it.

    My point, to be on topic, I see no need to have to level a job when you leveld the classes required to unlock it.
    (1)
    Last edited by Coglin; 10-24-2011 at 05:07 AM.

  9. #9
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    Razor's Avatar
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    Vex Blackmarrow
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coglin View Post
    You really want auto 50 on classes ? I think jobs should not need to be leveled, as they should be an extension of of there class in some manner. With your claims of what is needed to play a class, you in particular need to level any class you want to play just so you can learn to play it.

    My point, to be on topic, I see no need to have to level a job when you leveld the classes required to unlock it.
    Because someone who started a topic wanting jobs to have EXP bars in addition to class EXP bars would want classes to automatically become 50, that makes sense. Please look into the stance of the person you're about to strawman before doing so.

    That aside, as a mage you should understand just as well as I do that a plain 50 GLA is drastically inferior to a multi-skilled GLA. Unless you do no party content that is, I'm not sure, since I don't know you (See what I did there?). And while I agree with most of the other people that grinding a class for years =/= having any skill in the class. At least needing to be in several parties on your trip to 50 at least exposes you to party gameplay. An issue I personally have with the leveling process is when I'm shouting for people for content (Because I do actually play with people outside my Linkshell, golly-gee-willikers) is I have no way to tell how experienced they are. I'll agree with everyone that time =/= skill but at least on XI when I found a 75 PLD I knew he had to be at least decent at tanking otherwise he wouldn't be 75. I also realize that XI's long-grind system kicked the casual out of any potential player and crapped on it.

    My propsal combined the best of both (again, my opinion) of being able to get something to 50 easily (casual) so you can at least do end game content. But having an additional challenge added to distinguish people and give those who want to take their playstyle to the next level something to show for it.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alerith View Post
    You could cast while moving, but then you took an arrow to the knee, and must stand still.

  10. #10
    Player
    Tibian's Avatar
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    Tibian Rahm
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    Excalibur
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    Leatherworker Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Your stance contradicts itself. You are saying that XI's issue was having to level multiple classes (sub jobs). Well first of all sub jobs were only half of your main level, and getting to 37 was a lot easier than getting to 75.

    As a 50 GLA I need MRD to at least 48 for Defender II, CNJ 40+ for Cure III, etc, etc, you get the point. XIV is worse than XI in the respect some classes require you to level multiple classes to their max level in order to just play your main class properly. Even with jobs having their own EXP bar, I'd rather level GLA to 50 and then PLD to 50 than level GLA to 50 and then every other class to 50. Granted, having it auto-to 50 would make this process faster but that is the whole point of this thread which you have failed to address.
    I can see where you think my statements are contradictory and I am sorry for not making them clearer. My main point is that to be of any use in XI, as a Blue Mage I had to level Warrior, White Mage, Black Mage, Ninja, and Thief for experience parties, that wasn't even end game. People would literally turn me down if I didn't have their particular 'wanted' subjob. XIV needs to move away from this type of experience. Gladiators should not have to level up Marauder nor Pugilist to befunctional tanks. However injecting jobs with experience bars would just exacerbate the current situation we're already in.

    You mentioned that you have to level three or four jobs to be a successful tank. I am completely against that and I have made several comments about Gladiators needing to hold their own WITHOUT leveling other jobs. Clearly tanks are in the worst situation when it comes down to leveling multiple jobs. I think SE needs to address that issue, and in 1.2 they have a very good chance of doing so.

    And I think I've addressed the topic of the thread appropriately. Having jobs with experience bars, just makes the situation 100x worse. We don't need more grind in XIV, we need content. I was using XI as a comparison of how terrible it is to have individual experience bars, because it contributes nothing but a monotonous grind, which is what the inclusion of job exp bars would do.

    Again, no to individual exp bars for jobs. Keep them tied to the level of the class that unlocks them.
    (7)
    Last edited by Tibian; 10-24-2011 at 05:09 AM.

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