As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Judge_Xero]

3 levels of difficulty, instead of a huge leap from hard to extreme and normal to savage if I was doing the first two id still like a mount tho, because id still be putting 100% effort into it. Saying that tho normal is a joke how easy it is now I can dps alot of it, but it wasnt at first. Also some of this ability to dps comes from being in a good group like tanks using cds and dps staying alive. Its not really so clear cut as just the healer's skill level.

I was wanting to look at how things would work if the healing requirements were much higher where the potential for DPS is 0 and all healers can focus on is keeping people alive and how difficult that would be to balance.

So minimum ilvl Creator Savage: i255
A12S = 50% DPS uptime MH and 90% DPS uptime OH 70% combined DPS uptime with 80% Combined Healing uptime (HOTS, PET Etc) @ 4200 HPS

This group has the potential to increase their HPS by an additional 2.1k HPS @ i255 for a total 6300 HPS

VS Max ilvl i270
A12S = 0% DPS uptime MH and 40% DPS uptime OH 20% combined DPS uptime with 95% combined healing uptime @ 4400 HPS (3200 HPS if converted to i255)

This group has the potential to increase their HPS by 800 HPS @ i270 for a total of 5200 HPS (3800 HPS if converted to i255)

If the raids were tuned to the healing requirement of the max healing potential of skilled players then team 2 would need 20% Echo @ i270 to reach the healing potential of team 1 @ i255 without Echo.

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Sure 3 levels of difficulty would be nice, but IMO wasted resources because most wouldn't touch the highest tier of difficulty and those who did would complain that it's impossible to heal.

But the main thing I'm asking is how would you lessen the skill gap between average and skilled players where you allow average players to beat content and reduce DPS windows for skilled players.

[Feyona]

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Sure 3 levels of difficulty would be nice, but IMO wasted resources because most wouldn't touch the highest tier of difficulty and those who did would complain that it's impossible to heal.

But the main thing I'm asking is how would you lessen the skill gap between average and skilled players where you allow average players to beat content and reduce DPS windows for skilled players.

Does t have to be attuned to the very max healing potential, or are you allowed to take a breather for two second? After all humans arnt always so precise about movement. You still got your absorbs as well im guessing you didnt count them in your calculation. Smart though, Im not a numbers person myself. As for three difficulties Id think it would be set at a difficulty level that people according to statistics could do

[Judge_Xero]

Does t have to be attuned to the very max healing potential, or are you allowed to take a breather for two second?

What I wanted to illustrate was sort of how the healer DPS meta formed. Absolutely we are allowed to take a breather for two seconds which is how SE inadvertently created healer DPS windows.

The key point is that my comparison was between skilled i255 max healing output VS i270 low/average potential with most players somewhere in between. What does this mean?

TLDR: Even if average players don't have the skill to even heal through content, skilled players are still going to DPS a lot.

After all humans arnt always so precise about movement. You still got your absorbs as well im guessing you didnt count them in your calculation. Smart though, Im not a numbers person myself. As for three difficulties Id think it would be set at a difficulty level that people according to statistics could do[/QUOTE]

When we look at how DPS checks are balanced with enrages and burst checks in savage, is there any reason not to balance healers as strictly if they only had a healing kit? Would it really be unfair if at below minimum ilvl healers would need 90%+ throughput to keep up, when the DPS classes are expected to push at that level anyway?

It would not be unfair at all IMO except when you look at how skilled healers create current DPS windows, VS others who struggle to simply heal.
(i.e. 3000 HPS with just regens combined with an extra 3000 HPS from just raw heals VS C2 spam with 50% overheal)

This also effects how healers would manage to heal/do mechanics if the healing requirements were higher. Skilled players may not be able to heal/dps but average players wont be able to heal/mechanics.

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Sebazy reminded me of this bringing up T1 btw. I wasn't a healer in BCOB so I never got to experience but I do remember the snakes hitting really hard to the point where:

- People needed to bait tail swipes to reduced some attacks on the tanks
- coordinating keeping regens on both tanks
- tanks cycling CD's to reduce average DTPS
- even @ i90 the Tank Kite strat where people would rejoin the two snakes and then have a tank kite/sprint around the arena while both healer tried to keep him alive waiting for LB to build. Healers at max ilvl still struggle with the heal check of T1 to the point the kite strat was made. Then OMG T2 most teams couldn't even beat without the Enrage strat because the healers couldn't even start to think about keeping up.

But yeah, it's not like we are even talking about mere 2 second windows here. One of A12s' many huge DPS windows is just shy of 30 seconds long (In this case, between inceptions and fountains) with nothing but 3k auto attacks every few seconds . That's a huge amount of time for two healers to be stood about scratching their arses whilst Eos and a Regen takes care of things.

Exactly, and yet there's healers who can't grasp the level of damage going out at that point not realizing that a regen will cover the damage, who continually spam Benefic/Cure/Physic etc.

Imagine if it was 12k per hit, do you think most people could time a heal between two 12k hits and a 20k Divine Spear, and then have the tank topped and shielded for Punishing Heat?

Then consider the level of MP efficiency that would require, lol

[Sebazy]

Hmmmm? I may be confused on your wording but Foes doesn't give BRD a DPS reduction like Ballad/Paeon.

Ooops nope you've got me there, I have it in my head something got changed with foes recently to make it less impactful on the brd themselves? Can't put my finger on it tho, guess 2 would be a cast time reduction or such?

But yeah, it's not like we are even talking about mere 2 second windows here. One of A12s' many huge DPS windows is just shy of 30 seconds long (In this case, between inceptions and fountains) with nothing but 3k auto attacks every few seconds . That's a huge amount of time for two healers to be stood about scratching their arses whilst Eos and a Regen takes care of things.

[Kitfox]

This also effects how healers would manage to heal/do mechanics if the healing requirements were higher. Skilled players may not be able to heal/dps but average players wont be able to heal/mechanics.

I feel like this is no different from DPS classes as it is. Some people can do a perfect dummy rotation but can't keep their DPS up with movement and mechanics. The only additional hurdle for healers is the risk involved with Cleric Stance, and that's probably something they should remove if they dramatically increase the healing load. That would mean healers would be as able as dps classes to do their healing "rotation" during mechanics while also having a fluid option of avoiding overheal with offensive GCDs, instead of the danger of mechanical mistake + Cleric penalty screwing them over twice as bad. This would also be in line with the changes they said would be coming to the DPS classes with the easing of buff up keep, such as Enochian.

[Feyona]

I feel like this is no different from DPS classes as it is.

I do think healing is very different from dps. In wow I cant even remember this thing of 'unfairness' being an issue everyone knew that healing was hard in its own way, as not everyone could heal, most healers had to have 'addons' to do it efficiently. It justwasnt about how much up time etc it was about skill or ability to heal fast enough. Yes this is a different game and healers are saying they want more to do but really in current content I have plenty to do to heal in my groups. its only low content I can dps 90% Maybe synching could do with a tweek. Healing just isnt an auto rotation it does require more thinking or alertness not just on the boss but on eight people, all of the time constant retargetting always having to be ready to change immediately. Whereas dps may be watching rotations cds or whatever healers do as well. Ast has cards too has to think when to use certain cds or buffs, same as dps, but dps know when adds are coming. Healers dont know when someone going to get hit. I will even say here that healer already carries more pressure. Yes dps got pressure to dps but healer is responsible for entire group then you think about coordination with other healer too. Isnt these facters 'more effort'. Tanks may have more or less i dont know but when I play my tank it doesnt seem as much

[Feyona]

Ive seen the videos and see how healers do it in pro group yes pressing buttons, but in most of those where the healer dpsing 80% of the time, I dont see anyone messing up mechanics, healer just puts regens and thats it, trust tank uses cds appropriately, and thats all that the group seems to require. I dont see people dying randomly, or failing mechanics. No wonder people in good groups thinks its easy. Think difficulty is set to account for people messing up. Unfortunately average healers get in average groups. Who do mess up as well as me. Theres also people that cant afford pro gaming mouses etc and play on comps and get act. Theres unfairness yes but not in that way

[Mnemosynia]

Just gonna say if you have everyone at max hp with a HoT and/or a sheild, and you just standing around you should play another class, playing with only half your skills is nonsense.

[Taika]

Ive seen the videos and see how healers do it in pro group yes pressing buttons, but in most of those where the healer dpsing 80% of the time, I dont see anyone messing up mechanics, healer just puts regens and thats it, trust tank uses cds appropriately, and thats all that the group seems to require. I dont see people dying randomly, or failing mechanics.

I'd just like to point out that people rarely post the videos where they themselves or their party members mess up, and that's probably why you don't see them. I know I only post our first wins (which are usually smooth because we have pushed ourselves towards that one perfect-enough-to-win run for weeks) and then my team's best run. 99% of my videos consist of silly mistakes, wipes, and messy victories, and those don't get posted. If you want to see good healers performing well (DPS included) in hard content on messy runs, watch streams. Those aren't cherry picked to show only the smoothest runs.

[era1Ne]

Ive seen the videos and see how healers do it in pro group yes pressing buttons, but in most of those where the healer dpsing 80% of the time, I dont see anyone messing up mechanics, healer just puts regens and thats it, trust tank uses cds appropriately, and thats all that the group seems to require. I dont see people dying randomly, or failing mechanics. No wonder people in good groups thinks its easy. Think difficulty is set to account for people messing up. Unfortunately average healers get in average groups. Who do mess up as well as me. Theres also people that cant afford pro gaming mouses etc and play on comps and get act. Theres unfairness yes but not in that way

An group like this also talks alot about, what they use when and thinks about ways to improve as a team. How can we reduce the dmg incoming for example? This is not only about healers or tanks, because dd have tools to reduce the dmg aswell. So you could ask the question "As a dd, is it my job to help the tanks/healers?" Would be a great discussion.

At the risk of sounding really elitist. The 24 man content isn't the hard content, please keep this in mind =(

To clarify, raids failing the Diablos DPS check is more of an issue to with the average skill level across the player base as a whole. Or more specifically, SE doing an awful job of teaching people at the level cap how to play effectively.

Maat would be appalled at this state of affairs =(

The only hard part in the 24 man is people standing everywhere expect with their group and this means only a few get the aoe healing sometimes