As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

Hmmmm? I may be confused on your wording but Foes doesn't give BRD a DPS reduction like Ballad/Paeon. I do see your other points though that nothing other than the player base really enforces the Healer DPS Meta outside of solo content.

---------------------------------------------------



At least what we see currently with the healer DPS meta is that the healing requirements are pretty low so:
- healers that struggle just to heal can keep up
- healers that are more skilled can keep everyone alive while fitting in DPS where they can
- Top tier healers can just DPS 90% of the time

How would that get addressed so that we don't have players coming back here asking for the healing requirements get nerfed because they keep getting kicked from statics for not being able to keep everyone alive?

3 levels of difficulty, instead of a huge leap from hard to extreme and normal to savage if I was doing the first two id still like a mount tho, because id still be putting 100% effort into it. Saying that tho normal is a joke how easy it is now I can dps alot of it, but it wasnt at first. Also some of this ability to dps comes from being in a good group like tanks using cds and dps staying alive. Its not really so clear cut as just the healer's skill level.

[Judge_Xero]

3 levels of difficulty, instead of a huge leap from hard to extreme and normal to savage if I was doing the first two id still like a mount tho, because id still be putting 100% effort into it. Saying that tho normal is a joke how easy it is now I can dps alot of it, but it wasnt at first. Also some of this ability to dps comes from being in a good group like tanks using cds and dps staying alive. Its not really so clear cut as just the healer's skill level.

I was wanting to look at how things would work if the healing requirements were much higher where the potential for DPS is 0 and all healers can focus on is keeping people alive and how difficult that would be to balance.

So minimum ilvl Creator Savage: i255
A12S = 50% DPS uptime MH and 90% DPS uptime OH 70% combined DPS uptime with 80% Combined Healing uptime (HOTS, PET Etc) @ 4200 HPS

This group has the potential to increase their HPS by an additional 2.1k HPS @ i255 for a total 6300 HPS

VS Max ilvl i270
A12S = 0% DPS uptime MH and 40% DPS uptime OH 20% combined DPS uptime with 95% combined healing uptime @ 4400 HPS (3200 HPS if converted to i255)

This group has the potential to increase their HPS by 800 HPS @ i270 for a total of 5200 HPS (3800 HPS if converted to i255)

If the raids were tuned to the healing requirement of the max healing potential of skilled players then team 2 would need 20% Echo @ i270 to reach the healing potential of team 1 @ i255 without Echo.

---------------------------------------------

Sure 3 levels of difficulty would be nice, but IMO wasted resources because most wouldn't touch the highest tier of difficulty and those who did would complain that it's impossible to heal.

But the main thing I'm asking is how would you lessen the skill gap between average and skilled players where you allow average players to beat content and reduce DPS windows for skilled players.

[Feyona]

---------------------------------------------

Sure 3 levels of difficulty would be nice, but IMO wasted resources because most wouldn't touch the highest tier of difficulty and those who did would complain that it's impossible to heal.

But the main thing I'm asking is how would you lessen the skill gap between average and skilled players where you allow average players to beat content and reduce DPS windows for skilled players.

Does t have to be attuned to the very max healing potential, or are you allowed to take a breather for two second? After all humans arnt always so precise about movement. You still got your absorbs as well im guessing you didnt count them in your calculation. Smart though, Im not a numbers person myself. As for three difficulties Id think it would be set at a difficulty level that people according to statistics could do

[Judge_Xero]

Does t have to be attuned to the very max healing potential, or are you allowed to take a breather for two second?

What I wanted to illustrate was sort of how the healer DPS meta formed. Absolutely we are allowed to take a breather for two seconds which is how SE inadvertently created healer DPS windows.

The key point is that my comparison was between skilled i255 max healing output VS i270 low/average potential with most players somewhere in between. What does this mean?

TLDR: Even if average players don't have the skill to even heal through content, skilled players are still going to DPS a lot.

After all humans arnt always so precise about movement. You still got your absorbs as well im guessing you didnt count them in your calculation. Smart though, Im not a numbers person myself. As for three difficulties Id think it would be set at a difficulty level that people according to statistics could do[/QUOTE]

When we look at how DPS checks are balanced with enrages and burst checks in savage, is there any reason not to balance healers as strictly if they only had a healing kit? Would it really be unfair if at below minimum ilvl healers would need 90%+ throughput to keep up, when the DPS classes are expected to push at that level anyway?

It would not be unfair at all IMO except when you look at how skilled healers create current DPS windows, VS others who struggle to simply heal.
(i.e. 3000 HPS with just regens combined with an extra 3000 HPS from just raw heals VS C2 spam with 50% overheal)

This also effects how healers would manage to heal/do mechanics if the healing requirements were higher. Skilled players may not be able to heal/dps but average players wont be able to heal/mechanics.

-----------------------------------------------------

Sebazy reminded me of this bringing up T1 btw. I wasn't a healer in BCOB so I never got to experience but I do remember the snakes hitting really hard to the point where:

- People needed to bait tail swipes to reduced some attacks on the tanks
- coordinating keeping regens on both tanks
- tanks cycling CD's to reduce average DTPS
- even @ i90 the Tank Kite strat where people would rejoin the two snakes and then have a tank kite/sprint around the arena while both healer tried to keep him alive waiting for LB to build. Healers at max ilvl still struggle with the heal check of T1 to the point the kite strat was made. Then OMG T2 most teams couldn't even beat without the Enrage strat because the healers couldn't even start to think about keeping up.

But yeah, it's not like we are even talking about mere 2 second windows here. One of A12s' many huge DPS windows is just shy of 30 seconds long (In this case, between inceptions and fountains) with nothing but 3k auto attacks every few seconds . That's a huge amount of time for two healers to be stood about scratching their arses whilst Eos and a Regen takes care of things.

Exactly, and yet there's healers who can't grasp the level of damage going out at that point not realizing that a regen will cover the damage, who continually spam Benefic/Cure/Physic etc.

Imagine if it was 12k per hit, do you think most people could time a heal between two 12k hits and a 20k Divine Spear, and then have the tank topped and shielded for Punishing Heat?

Then consider the level of MP efficiency that would require, lol

[Sebazy]

Hmmmm? I may be confused on your wording but Foes doesn't give BRD a DPS reduction like Ballad/Paeon.

Ooops nope you've got me there, I have it in my head something got changed with foes recently to make it less impactful on the brd themselves? Can't put my finger on it tho, guess 2 would be a cast time reduction or such?

But yeah, it's not like we are even talking about mere 2 second windows here. One of A12s' many huge DPS windows is just shy of 30 seconds long (In this case, between inceptions and fountains) with nothing but 3k auto attacks every few seconds . That's a huge amount of time for two healers to be stood about scratching their arses whilst Eos and a Regen takes care of things.

[Kitfox]

This also effects how healers would manage to heal/do mechanics if the healing requirements were higher. Skilled players may not be able to heal/dps but average players wont be able to heal/mechanics.

I feel like this is no different from DPS classes as it is. Some people can do a perfect dummy rotation but can't keep their DPS up with movement and mechanics. The only additional hurdle for healers is the risk involved with Cleric Stance, and that's probably something they should remove if they dramatically increase the healing load. That would mean healers would be as able as dps classes to do their healing "rotation" during mechanics while also having a fluid option of avoiding overheal with offensive GCDs, instead of the danger of mechanical mistake + Cleric penalty screwing them over twice as bad. This would also be in line with the changes they said would be coming to the DPS classes with the easing of buff up keep, such as Enochian.

[Feyona]

I feel like this is no different from DPS classes as it is.

I do think healing is very different from dps. In wow I cant even remember this thing of 'unfairness' being an issue everyone knew that healing was hard in its own way, as not everyone could heal, most healers had to have 'addons' to do it efficiently. It justwasnt about how much up time etc it was about skill or ability to heal fast enough. Yes this is a different game and healers are saying they want more to do but really in current content I have plenty to do to heal in my groups. its only low content I can dps 90% Maybe synching could do with a tweek. Healing just isnt an auto rotation it does require more thinking or alertness not just on the boss but on eight people, all of the time constant retargetting always having to be ready to change immediately. Whereas dps may be watching rotations cds or whatever healers do as well. Ast has cards too has to think when to use certain cds or buffs, same as dps, but dps know when adds are coming. Healers dont know when someone going to get hit. I will even say here that healer already carries more pressure. Yes dps got pressure to dps but healer is responsible for entire group then you think about coordination with other healer too. Isnt these facters 'more effort'. Tanks may have more or less i dont know but when I play my tank it doesnt seem as much

[Feyona]

Ive seen the videos and see how healers do it in pro group yes pressing buttons, but in most of those where the healer dpsing 80% of the time, I dont see anyone messing up mechanics, healer just puts regens and thats it, trust tank uses cds appropriately, and thats all that the group seems to require. I dont see people dying randomly, or failing mechanics. No wonder people in good groups thinks its easy. Think difficulty is set to account for people messing up. Unfortunately average healers get in average groups. Who do mess up as well as me. Theres also people that cant afford pro gaming mouses etc and play on comps and get act. Theres unfairness yes but not in that way

[Stormbad]

I do think healing is very different from dps. In wow I cant even remember this thing of 'unfairness' being an issue everyone knew that healing was hard in its own way, as not everyone could heal, most healers had to have 'addons' to do it efficiently. It justwasnt about how much up time etc it was about skill or ability to heal fast enough. Yes this is a different game and healers are saying they want more to do but really in current content I have plenty to do to heal in my groups. its only low content I can dps 90% Maybe synching could do with a tweek. Healing just isnt an auto rotation it does require more thinking or alertness not just on the boss but on eight people, all of the time constant retargetting always having to be ready to change immediately. Whereas dps may be watching rotations cds or whatever healers do as well. Ast has cards too has to think when to use certain cds or buffs, same as dps, but dps know when adds are coming. Healers dont know when someone going to get hit. I will even say here that healer already carries more pressure. Yes dps got pressure to dps but healer is responsible for entire group then you think about coordination with other healer too. Isnt these facters 'more effort'. Tanks may have more or less i dont know but when I play my tank it doesnt seem as much

Feyona, I'm going to point this out only to show you why sometimes people completely misunderstand you. You quoted a Kitfox saying "I feel like this is no different from DPS classes as it is." Then you responded to that quote with why you feel like healing is very different from dps.

What you did was take his statement completely out of context. He wasn't saying that healers and DPS are the same, if you read what he posted and what he quoted in his post, he was saying that healers doing their job and also must do mechanics and so do DPS classes, they must do their job and do mechanics. Both jobs doing their thing AND do mechanics is what Kitfox is saying.

So now, people read your post and are confused because it has nothing to do what you quoted from Kitfox, within his context.

Also, when you say "Tanks may have more or less i dont know but when I play my tank it doesnt seem as much" I guarantee you that in the harder content, it is absolutely an expectation that they are maximizing their DPS as well as well as doing their "job" of aggro control, mitigation, positioning and doing mechanics.

Healers in FFXIV is not special in any way. Every archetype has an optimal way to play (I'm talking harder content here) and they are all equally responsible and all equally complex. When I see people claiming that their job is special, or hard, or somehow more responsible, I can assume they just haven't played the other jobs in the same hard content.

[Sebazy]

- even @ i90 the Tank Kite strat

That and the T2 enrage strat were absolute abominations, I'm so glad my group never resorted to either <3