Anyone else think the cap of 900 for tomes should be the future cap?

[Zojha]

They aren't intended as incentives.

:|

EVERY reward is intended as incentive. There's no reason to reward something otherwise. But that's beside the point.

What I'm questioning is the mentality of:"If it's everywhere, it's no longer anything special and therefore not worth attaining." and that people would stop caring as a result. Mounts already ARE almost everywhere. They already "are" no longer anything special. By that logic, people should have stopped caring about them "already".

[Pintsized]

What I'm questioning is the mentality of:"If it's everywhere, it's no longer anything special and therefore not worth attaining."

ABSOLUTELY AGREE .. I d couldn't care a fig how many others have something that appeals to me, I'm not trying to be a special snowflake, I use galmours/mounts/titles that I find amusing or whatever and I really don't care if every other player in the game has them too.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

:|

EVERY reward is intended as incentive. There's no reason to reward something otherwise. But that's beside the point.

What I'm questioning is the mentality of:"If it's everywhere, it's no longer anything special and therefore not worth attaining." and that people would stop caring as a result. Mounts already ARE almost everywhere. They already "are" no longer anything special. By that logic, people should have stopped caring about them "already".

Uh, no, they aren't. Some rewards are essentially "you did a good job." When it's guaranteed, that won't incentivize people to do it. Hence why no one does Savage unless they're already raiding. The mount is nothing more than a "Hey, I got this thing". Gear is what they're after.

A lot already have. The one site that actually tracks mount collection shows it's not nearly as popular as people like to believe. Putting them in even more content won't make people do it anymore than they already do.

[Zojha]

Uh, no, they aren't.

Yes they are. That is precisely what rewards are - a tool to control behavior via incentives. What do you think a "Good Job!" is supposed to achieve? To reinforce the behavior you show and incentivize you to do it more often/keep at it. Incentives simply don't always work. Many firms give you a monetary incentive to work overtime or night shift, but people simply often prefer to chill at home and sleep at the times they're used to. Likewise, many people have so much money, they stopped caring about it and instead want prestige and promotion options - monetary incentives fall completely flat for those people. Similar goes for any other incentive - including mounts, gear and anything else.

Further, you are complete and utterly wrong in every way when you say that a guaranteed reward doesn't serve as incentive. As a matter of fact, a guaranteed reward will always have a higher incentive function than an identical reward tied to probability - People are more willing to do a given task for 100$ than a chance at attaining 100$. The chance at not obtaining the reward requires the reward to be set higher to achieve the same incentive as a guaranteed reward. How much higher depends on the risk sensitivity of the individual. Likewise, people do temporal discounting when judging rewards - an apple today is worth more to people than an apple in a year. Delayed rewards also have to be higher to be worth as much as immediate rewards. Individual preferences also play a role here - an apple might be worth more than a pear to one person and vice versa to another. That's one of the reasons rewards frequently fall flat.

It's a well studied field. Go educate yourself. It's far too expansive to put it in a forum post.

That said, I can only speak for myself, but I personally never cared for mounts as such in the first place - I only care for a select few mounts I like the look of. Likewise, I don't care for glamour as such - I care about specific pieces because I find them pretty. And I care naught for stats - They're solely a means to an end.
Any reward SE puts up will be judged by my personal preference filter and will fail to fulfill its purpose if it is not judged favorably. If it manages to suit my preferences, it will be subjected to scrutiny of temporal accounting and risk accounting. My behavior will only change if after those steps, the effort to reward ratio still seems "worth it" to me, in which case, the incentive succeeded. Otherwise, it fails.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Poorly worded in retrospect, I'll admit. Nevertheless, the crux of the argument is putting mounts in everything as a replacement to tomestone grinding won't achieve the desired effect. Incentives inevitably have deprecating value. The easier and less prestige they are, the less likely people are to bother. Taking the story into context, you have do it. The incentive isn't a mount, but unlocking content and/or raids. Likewise, your example with Savage doesn't properly equate because it isn't the mount people are after. They want gear. Does this apply to everyone? No. But it's a failed incentive if the vast majority of people aren't concerned by it. Hence why shoehorning mounts into everything as a replacement to the tomestone grind we do now won't work.

(Now if we go back to only getting 450 a week, given it takes 5,760 tomes to gear one class, so 11,520 tomes are needed to gear two classes, at 450 a week it would take 25.6 weeks to gear two classes vs 12.8 at 900 a week.)

This was the math that someone did , 25.6 weeks is insane and ridiculous considering all the job choices you have like if you think thats a fast time you have more free time on your hands than I do. And the main reason for me to want all jobs leveled as Ive stated I do not play a one job fits all in content if I did that Its possible I may have never cleared some stuff.

That applies only if you do nothing else except run dungeons and EX Primals, none of which require nearly as high level gear. You can also omit weapons and settle on primal ones for your alt jobs. PotD made getting those even easier. If you want to gear up multiple jobs more quickly, you do have another option: Savage. Like Seekified said, playing a job and having full 260 or 270 are two entirely different things.

[bswpayton]

Poorly worded in retrospect, I'll admit. Nevertheless, the crux of the argument is putting mounts in everything as a replacement to tomestone

The thing is it depends on your motivation for raiding I simply will raid just to prove to myself that I'm skilled enough to do the content the gear isn't any incentive to me at all its a plus. But not why I do the content bis doesn't really hold any weight to me as long as it isnt trash gear. Because bis doesn't even matter in raids itself because if you cleared it before you got the gear from the raid then it obviously wasnt something you needed to beat the content, and everything else doesnt even require such gear. Like for instance if I had all shire 270 now and I get some drops for a tank Im not even gona click need on it more than likely because I dont need it. And whats going on now isnt the norm Its a ton of rng with raiding just as bad as mount drops same reason that once I got the peaguas from diadum the 280 weapon wasnt even a thought in my mind at all and havent been back sense.

Tomes gear is straight forward no rng involved you get your tomes from doing your content and you reap the rewards for it , I mean if its a crime to not be a fan of rng then I guess Im guilty of that because knowing that its a below 50 percent chance of gettin something then I will likely find other means. So raiding to me doesnt mean gear it means testing my skills, I dont have to farm it once I have cleared it when I have a much more straight forward way of obtaining 100 percent gear. And I am 100 percent fine with where my jobs are at now my bard ilvl is 238 which is my lowest atm and will be 260 by stormblood my issue is I have never played the game in a way that I had to prioritize one job and many other players haven't either.

The Ops post is asking for this in stormblood not talking about the current system even tho people keep referring to it. Like I said I play different jobs based on the content not because I am stuck on having a main if I can heal something better than I can tank it then Id rather have the option to change if need be I dont want to be shoehorned and put into a corner. I started maybe a year after hw and have always had the option to have every job around the same ilvl: 50 all jobs could be 120, 60 all jobs could be 230 with lore gear and now all jobs can be above 230. I dont want to be put in a situation where I am gearing up my job with tomes gear and my other job I use just as much is stuck in vendor trash gear because of a 450 cap. So the difference is you speak of raid gear which is rng and tomes gear which is a straight shoot are players bad for just wanting something that is a 100 percent return on investment?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

So... play a different job. You literally say bis isn't a requirement (it isn't) yet still care about getting all 260 or 270 faster. Nothing is preventing you from swapping jobs on a whim except your insistence they need equivalent gear. You may not fancy running Savage for weekly loot drops-- which is perfectly okay. But you can't then turn your nose up at the game and claim it's unfair how long gearing takes. There's a whole alternative method you aren't willing to do.

[bswpayton]

So... play a different job. You literally say bis isn't a requirement (it isn't) yet still care about getting all 260 or 270 faster. Nothing is

This thread is about the future cap not the current one and thats what I was refering to my healers and tanks are at ilvl 260 plus I know thats totally fine for the content thats in the game now. I know I can bring these jobs into anything my dragoon is ilvl 250 and will be higher by the end of the week because of the 900 cap. I am not talkin about when things are good like they are now, Im referring to end of the base story of stormblood at the start of endgame content.

From my understanding you are forced into one job role due to a 450 cap Im saying its different going from as many options as we have now to gear to going back to something that is very strict like that. I dont understand why people continue to talk about current gear methods when the op clearly stated the future cap. Meaning they like how it is now , and I agree 900 is a better number than 450 I dont see how this can be argued. It allows you to have more flexibility on what jobs you can play at higher level content I am not talkin about dungeons me and you have already agreed on another thread that mim ilvl for a dungeon is all you need but for me doing higher lvl content is better with higher level gear.