Why are summoners so neglected?

[Stitches1974]

I'll repeat again, though: the only issue with a pet-based SMN is the pet movement controls,

Lets see.

Issues that I see with SMN.

1. Pet does not follow you close enough. Multiple times where my pet has been locked out of a boss fight because of this.
2. Pet abilities are slow when pet is on obey and a player manually activates them ( contagion ).
3. Pet obey system needs to be reworked. Pet should not attack until the SMN is hit or attacks a mob. Currently, when the tank attacks a mob, my pet starts to auto attack said mob even when not in the fighting area. See number 1.
4. Garuda needs to needs to maintain a set distance from the SMN and mob. Half the time when I use enkindle, the pet is out of range. When enkindle it activated, pet needs to move closer to the SMN, then move to mob and use said ability. If SMN is on 1 side of the room and pet is on the other, that's an issue, unless the pet is given the command to stay there. Pet needs to follow the SMN even when in combat. SMN should not have to chase their pet down or command it to stop attacking in the middle of a fight.
5. SE needs to fix specific instance bugs with SMN pets. Instances like Praetorium and Castrum, when you come out of a cutscene to kill the final boss, the SMN pet just poofs and now you have to re-summon it.

[Synrin]

Lets see. Issues that I see with SMN.

This is just Garuda-egi being very naughty in general. Sometimes I feel like rolling with Ifrit just because he does ok on sic, and because he is always there attacking the mob/boss.

[Stitches1974]

This is just Garuda-egi being very naughty in general. Sometimes I feel like rolling with Ifrit just because he does ok on sic, and because he is always there attacking the mob/boss.

Agree. I'd rather use Ifrit, but contagion. Fix garuda and the poofing issue and it would be great.

[Ririta]

Agree. I'd rather use Ifrit, but contagion. Fix garuda and the poofing issue and it would be great.

It's about time that it got removed from Garuda and replaced Tri Bind as a summoner spell.

Other abilities are ok because they don't need agility to be executed.

To be honest I'd rather not complain about those things to not send the wrong message.

Dont get me wrong, not here to defend anyone or attacking someone's opinion. In fact the SMN was in ARR worse (IMO), beside being only viable with his dots and pet. I think, they did pretty well in HW with SMN, he got his own way and gamestyle. So let's say atleast they saved the SMN from his miserable state in ARR.

And to the BRD topic.. I main it since 2.0 times. I didnt change it and I still wont. In fact the Wanderers Minuett effect was new, I had to get used to it. But everyone who stopped Bard cause of it, is in my eyes just crying over things without trying or giving a bit time to it. Im not saying BRD is perfect right now, some things need to be adjusted still... Like Bloodletter resetting twice while casting something, etc. But I appreciate BRD as it is. It definetly is fun.

But ARR summoner was the best caster for literally every content before 2.4, it was so well designed that it was both mobile and useful while pulling competitive DPS (if not the best in the case of 2.0).

Summoner was only sad in the end of ARR because black mage got buffed too much, those buffs in 2.3 and then designing FCoB fights with little movement and high uptime.

Unless you're talking about gameplay, which, to me, Dreadwyrm Trance is still unpreferable as it's not really a style, it doesn't permanently changes our rotation like Enochian or Blood of the Dragon.

Again, this is just my opinion on gameplay, I much prefer the passive damage from ARR than this mixed thing that they got going on with HW. If you don't have Tri Disaster avaliable for some reason it's still better than spam Ruin III in Dreadwyrm Trance than setting up each DOT.

[Stitches1974]

It's about time that it got removed from Garuda and replaced Tri Bind as a summoner spell.

Other abilities are ok because they don't need agility to be executed.

To be honest I'd rather not complain about those things to not send the wrong message.

Yes, Contagion needs to be a SMN spell and not a pet ability. I also agree tri-bind needs to go as well.

[NaesakiAshwell]

Yes, Contagion needs to be a SMN spell and not a pet ability. I also agree tri-bind needs to go as well.

I'm going to assume Tri-bind is on the list of abilities being culled so that the amount of abilities now with the adding of the new ones, stays the same as it is now to combat the whole ability bloat.

Though I do wonder what else will be culled or merged.

I suppose we'll find out soon enough but it does leave me curious.

[Synrin]

Yes, Contagion needs to be a SMN spell and not a pet ability. I also agree tri-bind needs to go as well.

I agree as well.

[ApolloGenX]

Summoners don't even have dumbfire pets... why not? They are just a DoT in the form of a temporarily summoned pet or group of pets...but they are fun.

Anyone remember Secret of Mana? All magic was summoning- your spell actually summoned an elemental that cast the spell... loved that game! You can also get all kinds of fun and neat types of magic that way.

[Shurrikhan]

Lets see.

Issues that I see with SMN.

1. Pet does not follow you close enough. Multiple times where my pet has been locked out of a boss fight because of this.
2. Pet abilities are slow when pet is on obey and a player manually activates them ( contagion ).
3. Pet obey system needs to be reworked. Pet should not attack until the SMN is hit or attacks a mob. Currently, when the tank attacks a mob, my pet starts to auto attack said mob even when not in the fighting area. See number 1.
4. Garuda needs to needs to maintain a set distance from the SMN and mob. Half the time when I use enkindle, the pet is out of range. When enkindle it activated, pet needs to move closer to the SMN, then move to mob and use said ability. If SMN is on 1 side of the room and pet is on the other, that's an issue, unless the pet is given the command to stay there. Pet needs to follow the SMN even when in combat. SMN should not have to chase their pet down or command it to stop attacking in the middle of a fight.
5. SE needs to fix specific instance bugs with SMN pets. Instances like Praetorium and Castrum, when you come out of a cutscene to kill the final boss, the SMN pet just poofs and now you have to re-summon it.

Not sure how any of those contest my point, if that was the purpose? They are all pet movement issues (problems in execution), and were they resolved, there would be no issues with the idea (the concept itself) of a pet-based SMN.

Consider, for instance, if:
1. Pet's used a stretch hitbox (not sure if XIV has any examples of this, but it's used for anti-lag in other MMOs), allowing them to burst-move into range for attacks without being able to "blink-dodge" out of enemy attack range.
2. Pets used an internal resource for added movement speed, effectiveness tapering as the resource falls from cap, which regenerates while standing still.
3. All specials have greater range than basic attacks.
4. When your pet disappears due to range, it is automatically resummoned at your position at no cost or delay.
5. Pets used mergeable animations for, or could simultaneously cast, abilities triggered during basic casts.
5b. Or simply, abilities could cancel basic attacks for instant use.
6. You could reliably trigger pet abilities during your own casts. (Intermittent for me...)

The sad thing is that with as little tactical variation as the pet's positioning actually creates, it'd still be there only for:
1. Tanking
2. Simultaneous casting
3. To increase SMN apm by having the SMN move it about to keep it safe.

[ResiakTtam]

What's -actually- the problem here? Last I was ever told, SMN was pretty beloved in raid slots right now. I always hear about how hard they hit and the utility they bring. Sounds very neglected, yes.

Please don't mistake direction for neglect. Let's see where the storm blows them. it's in 3 months. Please, try to hold your horses. If Stromblood takes them in a wholly new direction out of left field that is nearly unanimously disliked, then perhaps there would be more to chew on here.

The problem is the feel of the job. Fans of the Summoner job, like me, dont like the design of the job. It has nothing to do with our performance. Theres two options I would have seen the job go. Either a fully fleshed out pet job that has access to all of the primals. Or a job that makes use of all of the primal similar to dreadworm trance. Either one touches on the traditional summoner mechanics.

Imagine if dragoon didn't have jump. Or white mage didn't heal. I don't feel like the current form of the summoner job really fits how I, as a long time final fantasy fan, sees the traditional summoner. And it really makes the job unenjoyable for me.