Slight Monk rework

[Allyrion]

No matter how you look at it Monk has basically been left behind as of late. People don't depend on them as much as they do say a Dragoon or something, the last time i actually remember someone being excited seeing a Monk in a run was back before the current expansion we have. Now its just like "eh.."

Yea sure, but what needs improving is important. We don't need a range attack and it sounded like you wanted to remove positionals, which would be horrible.

Monk is left behind because, as many others already said, we don't bring raid utility. Our own rotation and damage is fine and one of the best, but since we don't buff anyone else, it's usually an overall raid dps loss to bring a monk. No one is saying "Eh.." because they expect the MNK to be low on dps, it's because all they bring is high personal dps.

That was the case in ARR as well, but back then we had Dragon Kick exclusively at least. In 3.0, DRK is common and already brings the 10% debuff while also having very little synergy with MNK. MNK still has to do DRK because Delirium doesn't buff blunt damage and DRK still has to do it since it's their dps filler.

In addition to that, one debuff isn't enough anymore. DRG got Battle Litany and NIN got threat management (which means more tank dps). So we did get left behind, but only with raid utility.

[Inosaska]

snip

I don't believe monk is bad at all. I see plenty of videos on youtube of them having clears of top end content so its just a mental thing that everyone keeps trying to pin to monks are bad and not worth having in raids which isn't true at all.

[GeminiXIV]

I don't believe monk is bad at all. I see plenty of videos on youtube of them having clears of top end content so its just a mental thing that everyone keeps trying to pin to monks are bad and not worth having in raids which isn't true at all.

Nobody is saying Monk is bad and cant clear end game content. They just arent as efficient compared to other DPS due to low party utility.

[Inosaska]

Nobody is saying Monk is bad and cant clear end game content. They just arent as efficient compared to other DPS due to low party utility.

That's not a game issue that's a state of mind players have in the game. That is a very poor excuse for not bringing along a job because it isn't efficient and doesn't bring utility.

EDIT: They're also making some changes to the jobs abilities so things probably won't be the same come expansion time.

[GeminiXIV]

That's not a game issue that's a state of mind players have in the game. That is a very poor excuse for not bringing along a job because it isn't efficient and doesn't bring utility.

EDIT: They're also making some changes to the jobs abilities so things probably won't be the same come expansion time.

Its a fact that Monk brings the least amount of raid party utility. The mentality that stems from it doesnt change that. However, this doesnt mean Monk should be dismissed entirely from the current raid tier. Besides Mantra what else can they bring to the table as opposed to other DPS classes?

[Allyrion]

I don't believe monk is bad at all. I see plenty of videos on youtube of them having clears of top end content so its just a mental thing that everyone keeps trying to pin to monks are bad and not worth having in raids which isn't true at all.

Balance in this game isn't that bad that any job is really too much of a hinderance. If some players refuse a MNK simply because of some pre-judgement, then that's on them. Of course, MNK is fine for any content and, as I said, has exceedingly high personal dps.

With all that said, it is objectively lacking in what it brings to the raid other than that dps. Just knowing that MNK is fine for any content doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. Which is exactly why I replied to this thread, because MNK doesn't need dps improvements, rather it needs more raid utility.

And yes, this might be coming already with Stormblood but we can only wait and see for now. While we do that, the last thing we need is to ask for dps improvements for MNK.

[Krindor]

MNK is fine for any content

There's a small niche content where monk is borderline worthless, speed running. But other than that it's viable in any kind of content, the reason people i excluding them is because it's not meta, but neither is BLM/SMN/WHM/PLD, if a group is only excluding monk they are just stupid.

[wereotter]

-snip- DRK still has to do [Delirium] since it's their dps filler.

Dark Knight should NEVER use Delirium if there's a monk in party The added 40 potency for a tank move on it vs Souleater isn't worth the blunt down you lose on the monk, and it's an overall DPS loss if Delirium is applied to the enemy.

Grease Lightning isn't even the main thing i'd rather see changed, another person said they rather Monk keeps the position limits they have but other then one or two moves on Dragoon they are the only class that requires you to be in a set spot.

Incorrect. Aeolian Edge on NIN is a rear positional, Armor Crush is a flank, Trick Attack is a rear, Sneak Attack is a front.

Yes, monk has a positional requirement for literally every move, but every melee DPS has positional requirements.

[DarkerOrange]

Dark Knight should NEVER use Delirium if there's a monk in party The added 40 potency for a tank move on it vs Souleater isn't worth the blunt down you lose on the monk, and it's an overall DPS loss if Delirium is applied to the enemy.

Except that Delirium doesn't override DK...Please read tooltips (or just look at the effect in game) before you attempt to 'school' someone.

[wereotter]

Except that Delirium doesn't override DK...Please read tooltips (or just look at the effect in game) before you attempt to 'school' someone.

Watch it in game when a dark knight applies Delirium, yes, it does override Dragon Kick. Even read the tooltips, does not stack with Dragon Kick. Exact same verbiage as Dancing Edge and Storm's Eye, and those can't both be applied to an enemy at the same time.