Slight Monk rework

[Allyrion]

I don't believe monk is bad at all. I see plenty of videos on youtube of them having clears of top end content so its just a mental thing that everyone keeps trying to pin to monks are bad and not worth having in raids which isn't true at all.

Balance in this game isn't that bad that any job is really too much of a hinderance. If some players refuse a MNK simply because of some pre-judgement, then that's on them. Of course, MNK is fine for any content and, as I said, has exceedingly high personal dps.

With all that said, it is objectively lacking in what it brings to the raid other than that dps. Just knowing that MNK is fine for any content doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. Which is exactly why I replied to this thread, because MNK doesn't need dps improvements, rather it needs more raid utility.

And yes, this might be coming already with Stormblood but we can only wait and see for now. While we do that, the last thing we need is to ask for dps improvements for MNK.

[Krindor]

MNK is fine for any content

There's a small niche content where monk is borderline worthless, speed running. But other than that it's viable in any kind of content, the reason people i excluding them is because it's not meta, but neither is BLM/SMN/WHM/PLD, if a group is only excluding monk they are just stupid.

[wereotter]

-snip- DRK still has to do [Delirium] since it's their dps filler.

Dark Knight should NEVER use Delirium if there's a monk in party The added 40 potency for a tank move on it vs Souleater isn't worth the blunt down you lose on the monk, and it's an overall DPS loss if Delirium is applied to the enemy.

Grease Lightning isn't even the main thing i'd rather see changed, another person said they rather Monk keeps the position limits they have but other then one or two moves on Dragoon they are the only class that requires you to be in a set spot.

Incorrect. Aeolian Edge on NIN is a rear positional, Armor Crush is a flank, Trick Attack is a rear, Sneak Attack is a front.

Yes, monk has a positional requirement for literally every move, but every melee DPS has positional requirements.

[DarkerOrange]

Dark Knight should NEVER use Delirium if there's a monk in party The added 40 potency for a tank move on it vs Souleater isn't worth the blunt down you lose on the monk, and it's an overall DPS loss if Delirium is applied to the enemy.

Except that Delirium doesn't override DK...Please read tooltips (or just look at the effect in game) before you attempt to 'school' someone.

[wereotter]

Except that Delirium doesn't override DK...Please read tooltips (or just look at the effect in game) before you attempt to 'school' someone.

Watch it in game when a dark knight applies Delirium, yes, it does override Dragon Kick. Even read the tooltips, does not stack with Dragon Kick. Exact same verbiage as Dancing Edge and Storm's Eye, and those can't both be applied to an enemy at the same time.

[wereotter]

No matter how you look at it Monk has basically been left behind as of late. People don't depend on them as much as they do say a Dragoon or something, the last time i actually remember someone being excited seeing a Monk in a run was back before the current expansion we have. Now its just like "eh.."

Yup.... It's even gotten to the point on my data center that I've seen groups in PF explicitly excluding MNK from the available roles for various instances. And, no, it was not an oversight, they said it in the description, and removed monk from every DPS role slot.

[KingFrost]

It feels less like a problem of utility and more an issue of synergy. All that DRG has for raid utility over Monk is piercing resist debuff, which is immense for a MCH (Which just happens to be super good).

While DPS boosts are held in much higher regard than than defensive skills, Mantra and Battle Litany are both extremely powerful for what they do (Hell all Mantra needs is a little extra utility on the Monk and you could call it even). If there was a class that did blunt damage, then the Monk would be fine.

Honestly, if the MCH did blunt, most these Monk complaints would be non-existent.

Question, why is Monk bad at Speed running? Is it the lack of a raid wide DPS buff? I

[Inosaska]

It feels less like a problem of utility and more an issue of synergy. All that DRG has for raid utility over Monk is piercing resist debuff, which is immense for a MCH (Which just happens to be super good).

While DPS boosts are held in much higher regard than than defensive skills, Mantra and Battle Litany are both extremely powerful for what they do (Hell all Mantra needs is a little extra utility on the Monk and you could call it even). If there was a class that did blunt damage, then the Monk would be fine.

Honestly, if the MCH did blunt, most these Monk complaints would be non-existent.

Question, why is Monk bad at Speed running? Is it the lack of a raid wide DPS buff? I

No its because when a pull is done to slowly then the monk loses all its grease lighting and has to build those back up.

[Krindor]

Question, why is Monk bad at Speed running? Is it the lack of a raid wide DPS buff? I

Low party wide DPS utility is one part. But the most significant is a horrible burst together with the lack of DPS utility. What this causes is that there is a lack of burst which is needed when speed running. Most notably A10S and A11S this tier. Some skips are next to impossible with a monk but easily doable with a different comp. It takes roughly a minute for monk to get on top of the damage dealt, which is a hella long for some pushes and much later if any type of party utility is included. Which makes it unwanted for pretty much any speed kill. Not to mention that SE keeps on passively buffing bard with gear making them reach higher DPS levels than a monk in some fights.

[Vorx]

Grease Lightning isn't even the main thing i'd rather see changed, another person said they rather Monk keeps the position limits they have but other then one or two moves on Dragoon they are the only class that requires you to be in a set spot. And if the run calls for you to move a lot your damage is literally cut in half.
If anything else just removing this option would be good. Of course they would need to lower the over all power some to cut the bonus they get for not having to move but to keep up a decent output of damage i'd say that is a fair trade.