Do Something About Duty Finder Already

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I think it is more the missing guidance from the game itself.

I'm inclined to agree with Yeol because I know plenty of people who decided to attempt Extreme Primals only to get utterly demolished. The skill jump is enormous going from near brain dead easy dungeons to endgame content. Even Alexander Normal does a woeful job preparing less experienced players for the damage spike of its Savage counterpart. Now I'm not advocating the game outline precisely when to use every single ability. A new raider doesn't need to have an optimal rotation but merely an effective one. Unfortunately, the normal mode equivalent are so laughably easy people can literally spam 123 and get through without an issue. Zurvan EX proved just how wide the skill gap is. People cannot even execute their openers on a fight that spends the first 40% mimicking a training dummy. Why? Because what encouragement has the game ever shown they needed one? The devs keep prattling on about making things easier on newer players. They aren't ever going to shrink the skill gap unless they push the bottom up.

[Driavna]

.rar

At the end of the day is more about player actitude that anything else, IMO extreme content is in a sweet spot and should be the default for any 8 man outside MSQ, also we need extreme dungeons.

[LalaRu]

I know plenty of people who decided to attempt Extreme Primals only to get utterly demolished.

It maybe helps them understand how much they have to improve, it is not a bad thing:the battles you lose are the ones that helps you more on improve.

The issues is, people nowadays wants only winners in their parties. But to be a winner, you need bite the dust first.

[Zhamkyong]

The issues is, people nowadays wants only winners in their parties. But to be a winner, you need bite the dust first.

Sometimes also is how they react to players who are learning their job or the fight itself. It happened to me, I picked up machinist as soon as I could, level it and went all HW with it. Then Alexander came, I got into the 4th raid of the first series and passed it with sweat and blood. I knew I was not the best, but I managed to do the mechanics, burst adds down very fast, assist with tp and mp... I was at the peak on that moment, euphoric , as it was my first raid. Then someone who was parsing came and shouted who awful my play had been along with other no so pretty words. I stand my ground and confronted him, but no one else replied and he kept insisting so I decided to leave.

I remember getting really pissed, decided to improve and trying not to mind what that player said. My fc buddies and gf tried to cheer me up, but the damage was done as it wounded me more than I thought. In the end I let the lunchbox and picked up the smn book again, something I sometimes regret. Some players only wants winners, everything done fast and kick out the one who is learning, they don't see the damage they are doing in the process.

[Lozza]

Snip.

Your post makes me sad, while I don't see this behaviour often I've seen it enough outside of raids it is of no surprise why the tank & healer pools are so small.
I bought the game for my sister for her bday last year and we started playing together. Like many MMOs where we play together we often tag team as healer & tank. While she was learning to heal we didn't have too many issues but recently when she started to learn to tank we've had a couple of not so nice instances of overgeared DPS tearing into her in Sastasha for not pulling big, or when she attempted a larger pull not completely holding threat. Players learn by practice.

While I do wish the duty finder might have more restrictions on it to prevent really basic stupidity - like a tank in Qarn (lvl35) in the Novice Hall i17 DPS gear - I did not enjoy healing that run I would be equally in favour of a checkbox along the lines of "speed run" or "I don't want play with newbies".

[Zojha]

Zurvan EX proved just how wide the skill gap is.

They've acknowledged the skill gap between players... goodness, 3.3 already? Probably even earlier.

And from what it appears, they do attempt to push the bottom up - by lowering the skill floor for jobs. That's where ideas like permanent Enochian come from. The goal will be to reduce the performance gap with the given skill gap.
And I can already imagine some people here stomping their foot because that's not how they're supposed to go about it.

[Just-Communication]

I see two (or more) sides to this argument. Your proposals seem to stem from the desire for players to learn on their own, as poor performance (or lack or performance) is a burden for others when using duty finder. You are not advocating for players to learn from the community, their FC, or through mentors. You want individual players to improve in a way that does not waste your time.

Along those lines, you are not suggesting that frustrated players go find a social circle and complete instances as a fixed party. You want the duty finder, but also want other player's performance to meet your expectations, which may or may not be reasonable.

When did poor performance (or lack of performance) equate to a waste of one's time in duty finder? The player performing poorly, or miserably as some would put it, do not feel like their time is being wasted. That's you. How much control do you want until you are satisfied? What combos/rotation should complete strangers use to please you?

Yes, there is a need for gratification. Perhaps not instant gratification, but we seem to be gradually moving in that direction. We want results for the effort we put in. It's frustrating when you fail - even more so when it is due to something beyond your control. Something beyond your control. You want to be given reassurance that the behaviors of others in duty finder is subject to measures of control.

You're doing everything right, so why are all these other people screwing up so badly? You want to run through a dungeon like your pants are on fire, like half the mobs should just be grouped together right at the entrance vice spread out, like you can't be bothered, like everything that doesn't go your way is a waste of your time.

There are tests. There are lots of tests in the game; many require a party. But you don't want to be part of their test. You don't want to waste your time.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It maybe helps them understand how much they have to improve, it is not a bad thing:the battles you lose are the ones that helps you more on improve.

The issues is, people nowadays wants only winners in their parties. But to be a winner, you need bite the dust first.

... through third parties and websites. While challenging players is always the best solution, the game does a piss poor job bracing them for the sudden incline. You cannot expect people to go from entirely faceroll content to stuff where if they aren't timing their cooldowns properly or pre-casting heals, they'll wipe the party. A new Dragoon won't know the skill speed sweet spot is at 625 and 651. Why would they? The game never tells you at what point skill speed actually benefits or hinders your GCD.

They've acknowledged the skill gap between players... goodness, 3.3 already? Probably even earlier.

And from what it appears, they do attempt to push the bottom up - by lowering the skill floor for jobs. That's where ideas like permanent Enochian come from. The goal will be to reduce the performance gap with the given skill gap.
And I can already imagine some people here stomping their foot because that's not how they're supposed to go about it.

And that is a decent start. It won't, however, be a solution if content difficulties varies so significantly. People should be learning the necessity of cooldowns and support abilities in dungeons and be putting them into practice by extremes. They don't because the only way you'll even need cooldown as a tank is if you pull the entire room. Do small pulls in Xelphatol and I dare say you wouldn't even need a healer. You bring the bottom up by gradually introducing reasonable skill thresholds and asking they meet these new requirements. Keep it a steady incline so players don't feel overwhelmed and then unleash harder stuff. Currently, FFXIV makes the majority of its content a complete joke, abruptly pushes you with Extremes and then murders you come Savage.

I do want to emphasis normal modes shouldn't be some grueling test of endurance like Savage can be. But there is a middle ground the devs really haven't explored. I come back to Xelphatol/Gubal Hard a lot, however they serve a great example. What incentive do people have to upgrade their gear when the most recent dungeons (as of 3.4) only asked for gear released when Heavensward first launched over a year prior?

[Ririta]

I do want to emphasis normal modes shouldn't be some grueling test of endurance like Savage can be. But there is a middle ground the devs really haven't explored. I come back to Xelphatol/Gubal Hard a lot, however they serve a great example. What incentive do people have to upgrade their gear when the most recent dungeons (as of 3.4) only asked for gear released when Heavensward first launched over a year prior?

If it wasn't like this then catching up would be too painful and grindy. Early Heavensward dungeons offers like 30 Lore.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You all keep going off the assumption that devs are the Uber-Masters of their game.

I am not. The devs cannot account for very variable imagine nor did I insinuate that were the issue; rather it's the sheer lack of overall balance and abrupt gap in between content tiers. The Aery and Vault are noticeably harder than nearly every single Expert dungeon released thereafter. "Uber-mastery" of the game is not required to cite that as a conscious decision to reduce difficulty. The result is played less equip for harder content. Should they take it upon themselves to improve? Absolutely. But they should not be wholly dependent on third party websites to learn what the game ought to teach. As per my example, a tank shouldn't have to pull the room to actually feel like a tank; the healer shouldn't be entirely idle unless they DPS, and yet both do/are because content simply does not incentives needing those skills until extreme primals.

Players shouldn't be learning their openers when they step into Zurvan EX. They ought to be putting to practice what was taught and encouraged in the normal mode. Instead, it's a faceroll you can press 123 and still clear.

If it wasn't like this then catching up would be too painful and grindy. Early Heavensward dungeons offers like 30 Lore.

You can catch up within a week or less right now. Making that a little less easy isn't the end of the world, especially if it incentives better play in the long term. Regardless, I fail to see how adjusting content to be less of a complete faceroll makes it "too painful"? Is it too much to ask people not be able to chain pull a dungeon at release without even using a cooldown? Not to mention, the current tomestones are always added to old dungeons and trials. That gives returning players a leg up on progression.