Stop Making Should-Be Achievement Gear.."Optional Gear"

[Talraen]

If a company goes "This is our service and this is what is included in our service charge" and then starts taking items out of that package for no reason than to charge separately for them you can be sure there will be consumer blowback.

Can you show me where Square Enix ever said that? They used to give people a second chance at seasonal items, now they don't. There was no formal policy in place for the former, nor the latter. What basis do you have for assuming they would remain free forever?

In fact its the exact reason that when cable, internet, and phone providers update their packages for new subscribers they dont go back and ninja the customers on existing plans, they keep them as they were for previous subscribers, because thats what they signed up for (also contracts but y'know).

Contracts are kind of important in this case, since they are literally the reason this happens at all.

So can they decide to charge for it? Sure, they can.

Most companies however deem the practice unethical (lol they don't want to deal with the blowback) so they don't do it and consumers have the right to voice an opinion if they disagree with the service.

No company considers charging for something unethical. Because if they did, they would go out of business pretty quickly. Companies split off products that were previously included in a package, or stop giving things away for free, all the time.

Allowing players to re-obtain seasonal event items in-game was something this game allowed before the Mogstation, it was a feature of the game one could count under what their subscription covered. Then when the next year came around suddenly the vendors no longer provided those items and you could "look forward" to them being charged for an additional fee on the Mogstation.

If you counted on that to be part of your subscription, that's on you. That was never promised. And they gave subscribers a chance to get every item from 1.0 before they started charging for anything.

The argument is "Why am I suddenly paying an additional fee for something I didn't have to before?"

That's not an argument, that's misunderstanding how business works. And besides, you're not paying an additional fee, since you indicated you don't buy the cash shop items. What they have done is stop offering something they used to offer for free. Much like they stopped offering the original version of Diadem, or the entirety of 1.0 (which free for some time before they started charging for it, I might add). It's their game, they can do that, and every user should expect it. One day they'll shut down the servers and everything you ever earned or even paid for will be gone.

[Ryel]

Can you show me where Square Enix ever said that? They used to give people a second chance at seasonal items, now they don't. There was no formal policy in place for the former, nor the latter. What basis do you have for assuming they would remain free forever?

If you counted on that to be part of your subscription, that's on you. That was never promised. And they gave subscribers a chance to get every item from 1.0 before they started charging for anything

If you're asking for a clause in the ToS or the EULA then no you won't find one.

But generally the practice you're asking about falls under consumer-business goodwill. That the expectation, quality, and cost of services rendered wont suddenly change.

It's the same reason players don't expect them to suddenly start charging for any other number of game interactions that we currently have access to even though they technically could, according to the ToS and EULA nothing really stops them, they have the option should they wish. However we dont expect them to start charging for raids resets (some free to play games actually do charge for this) or various other game features, because we pay a recurring subscription. It's one of the draws of the game itself.

Its part of the subscription based MMO model.

No company considers charging for something unethical. Because if they did, they would go out of business pretty quickly. Companies split off products that were previously included in a package, or stop giving things away for free, all the time.

And it doesn't always work, you know why?

Because people speak up about it or take their business elsewhere.

If everyone just shrugged their shoulders anytime it happened it would be far more commonplace. Its why we give feedback, surely such a concept isn't that foreign is it?

That's not an argument, that's misunderstanding how business works. And besides, you're not paying an additional fee, since you indicated you don't buy the cash shop items. What they have done is stop offering something they used to offer for free. Much like they stopped offering the original version of Diadem, or the entirety of 1.0 (which free for some time before they started charging for it, I might add). It's their game, they can do that, and every user should expect it. One day they'll shut down the servers and everything you ever earned or even paid for will be gone.

In all honesty it doesn't affect me, I have the items, I was there for the events.

But judging by the thread it effects other people, and as a consumer I can speak up for and agree with them as well.

When I used the quote for the statement of the argument I don't mean myself personally, but it is an illustration of what the situation actually is. And it's not about whether or not you take something with you when the servers shut down or what content is no longer in the game but the user experience and consumer/business interaction.

SE as a company wont know what is and isn't okay if people don't give feedback on the matter, which is... exactly what I'm doing. I'm not sure how you haven't picked up this point across 3 posts, it hasn't exactly been subtle.

But if you wish to sit there and say "Well it's fine the way it is!" then by all means continue to do so, that's your right as a consumer, just as it's mine to disagree with the practice.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

SE as a company wont know what is and isn't okay if people don't give feedback on the matter, which is... exactly what I'm doing. I'm not sure how you haven't picked up this point across 3 posts, it hasn't exactly been subtle.

But if you wish to sit there and say "Well it's fine the way it is!" then by all means continue to do so, that's your right as a consumer, just as it's mine to disagree with the practice.

Exactly. You all might be okay with getting less than before for your subscription, but don't expect everyone to share that sentiment.

[Talraen]

(a bunch of good stuff)

I'm not going to comb through the EULA, but I think we've both made our points here. I do want to clarify that I have no issue with people complaining about the cash shop, or being unhappy with it. It just bothers me that people try to make it into an ethical argument. All that does is escalate things and divide people. I think we'd all be better off if we were just honest about what we want, particularly with ourselves.

[Nora_of_Mira]

I'm not going to comb through the EULA, but I think we've both made our points here. I do want to clarify that I have no issue with people complaining about the cash shop, or being unhappy with it. It just bothers me that people try to make it into an ethical argument. All that does is escalate things and divide people. I think we'd all be better off if we were just honest about what we want, particularly with ourselves.

I want to look cute and dope AF, and I am willing to pay for it.

[loreleidiangelo]

I want to look cute and dope AF, and I am willing to pay for it.

My sentiments too, pretty much. Nothing except the Far Eastern Matriarch gear has appealed to me on Mog store yet, so that's all I own. I think the WoW mounts are kinda underwhelming, so never bought those either. I don't get what's so hard about realizing that if you don't like stuff, don't buy it, and if the Mog store pisses you off on principle then you should either mass appeal to all the players in-game to boycott it in the hopes that these items will be added to in-game methods in the future, or just unsub and find a game that doesn't have microtransactions (GOOD LUCK, lel).

Way back when the store was introduced I even recall making a post saying, "this is your only chance to make sure this thing doesn't stick around, vote with your wallet and don't buy Odin even if you REALLY want it" then I logged in and saw like 50 people in Mor Dhona with it and realized idgaf, it works for f2p p2w crapfest games and it works here. People LOVE the opportunity to throw money at the screen to feel exclusive from others, whether it's cosmetics or Sword of Noob-beating+40. And given the prices on these items, it takes like half of them to pay what you're paying now, so of course the company is gonna follow where the money comes from.

[Reaperking386]

My sentiments too, pretty much. Nothing except the Far Eastern Matriarch gear has appealed to me on Mog store yet, so that's all I own. I think the WoW mounts are kinda underwhelming, so never bought those either. I don't get what's so hard about realizing that if you don't like stuff, don't buy it, and if the Mog store pisses you off on principle then you should either mass appeal to all the players in-game to boycott it in the hopes that these items will be added to in-game methods in the future, or just unsub and find a game that doesn't have microtransactions (GOOD LUCK, lel).

Way back when the store was introduced I even recall making a post saying, "this is your only chance to make sure this thing doesn't stick around, vote with your wallet and don't buy Odin even if you REALLY want it" then I logged in and saw like 50 people in Mor Dhona with it and realized idgaf, it works for f2p p2w crapfest games and it works here. People LOVE the opportunity to throw money at the screen to feel exclusive from others, whether it's cosmetics or Sword of Noob-beating+40. And given the prices on these items, it takes like half of them to pay what you're paying now, so of course the company is gonna follow where the money comes from.

The issue with your post was the a huge majority who buy in the cash do not go on the forums. We are a very small portion of the game. The only time people come into the forums in droves is to mostly complain. So I can see why so many had the mount, but even if people did see the post they would have different opinions from your own. What you may see as unfair or over priced is not to others. As far as the Cash Shop goes...as long as it does not turn into actual content being sold (story, events, dungeons, raids, Etc.) or stronger gear, then I am fine with it. If that does happen then I will indeed join the Cash Shop rebels, but that line must be crossed first.

I came from wow and I am use to the cash shops. WoW forces you to pay for their story by buying crucial story plots. You want to know who Illidan is? Grab $150.00 because you are going to need to buy all 4 of the books (3 out of 4 are no longer published anymore), and Warcraft 3. If not then hope you enjoy trying to figure out what the twelve is going on.