Do Something About Duty Finder Already

[Jim_Berry]

I only dislike this thread because as a healer, I only heal. So my gripe is always against those who ask me why I'm just standing there. I'm just not one of those players who can effectively manage both dps and healing without getting too carried away with the dps. It's upsetting when I'm doing ALL mechanics, healing, raising, using Ethers, and squeezing every little bit of MP to keep people healthy, but it's all for nothing when I see the words, "git gud".

[RaijinSupreme]

. . . I'm aware SE isn't privvy to do much about an issue largely rooted in player mentality and etiquette, but there ARE some gaps where a certain degree of follow up is safe to be expected in order for players to flourish, and they just. . . don't. Something's got to give.

like what? what gaps? what can SE do to make a bad player who doesn't care to be a good player, good?

The only thing I can think of is if SE decides to decrease the difficulty of the entire game so much that even a bad player can still clear content easily.

Would you like that?

[Jim_Berry]

I know right. Who cares if we can't beat the dps check for normal mode Faust because dps is too low? Who cares if the tank can't keep aggro and wipes the group? Oh yeah and those healers who can't keep the party alive? They pay a sub so they should be able to play however they want. It's funny people would actually expect others to play to any standard lol. I join as PLD for fast queues, I could care less about keeping aggro, the healer can heal up the DPS, it's their job anyway. It's ridiculous that they expect anything from me smh. I pay a sub. I play how I want.

You'd be surprised at how many times I seen a THM do more damage than a BLM.

[Ilan]

snip

And all of this what you want for players, i hope even the old players have to do that.

On the other hand i would allow people to enter Dungeons until 40 without a job but after that...no, except for PotD because a job is not needed in there at all.

And for the "I pay my sub i can do what i want" people: Yes you pay your sub, you can do what you want as long as you don't ruin the game for other people who pay their subs too. So get over yourself and start to learn how to damn play your jobs at least a bit.

[Mycow8me]

The thing is, it's a game design issue that players have no desire to be better.

It really isn't a game design issue. There are a lot of reasons to get better in this game "IF" you want to do the harder content and succeed. You can discourage and restrict poor play all you want but better play is already being rewarded via EX and savage drops. Complaining about players in the easiest content in the game is a player created problem due to "fair share of the work" and there are some people who have no intention of touching EX or savage in the first place thinking what they currently are doing is acceptable or a "fair share" because they are still winning the easiest content in the game anyway.

There is always going to be that one player, that one DF run, that one raid, that just didn't go well or had crummy players regardless of what SE does unless its flat out gating and IMO that outcry from that would be worse.

[ZioSerpe]

But Duty Finder didn't keep the person from queueing as a gladiator, clearly.

And unless you're saying that being a skilled player is a required condition to play Duty Finder content according to the game's TOS, then you are the one not making much sense, sir.

have a good day =)

No but common sense is, everyone knows that Savage is meant for hardcore play. Now I could keep this discussion but I'm done feeding the troll. Find a a better hobby please, or git gud at trolling, you're not supposed to look so obvious.

[Korbash]

Forcing people to have jobs at Haukke Manor (LV 28 dungeon), jobs cannot be obtained, not up until one reaches LV 30 first.

Second, what about leveling other classes for cross-class skills for the jobs you want to play? I leveled up Gladiator to LV 34 for my Warrior, I leveled up Pugilist to LV 44 for my Bard and Ninja, I leveled up Lancer to LV 34 (before I decided to play Dragoon after I got all my other jobs at LV 60) for my Bard, Ninja and Machinist. I never got the Paladin job, or Monk job either. I also have a Scholar that I've had most everything unlock and has LV 60 gears too, but I'd need to level up conjurer higher than LV 15 to have more cross-class skills, should I get punished, along with everyone else into a job I'm not into (White Mage)? Unlike some, I'm not interested into playing all battle jobs, the current 7 jobs are the ones I want to play, that's it that's all.

Forcing players to have jobs before LV 50 is just nonsense, some are probably doing just that, getting their cross-class skills.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

like what? what gaps? what can SE do to make a bad player who doesn't care to be a good player, good?

The only thing I can think of is if SE decides to decrease the difficulty of the entire game so much that even a bad player can still clear content easily.

Would you like that?

I should've clarified the "follow up" was on players, not SE. You would also agree that there are areas where the game just simply doesn't explain itself well enough, if at all, yes? And as it stands, if people continuously defend not playing well or not even trying to play well (again, legitimately not knowing isn't as big a problem as knowing but not bothering), that may very well be.

Just look at Extreme trials since Thordan. I seem to recall Yoshi P saying they wouldn't make any trials that intense anymore.

[Owl_Hawk]

it is a MAJOR game design issue...the devs reward players for not playing right...how?

Echo for one...During MSQ if you failed at one of those instanced quests..they just give you Echo! This just stops a person from trying to fix their rotation and just keep doing what they were doing until Echo goes up so high they kill it...this is really poor design

There is the issue of some strong ilvl gear for little effort via certain methods as well which is also a form of Echo..

[Kyuuen]

Slippery slope? No. Thought provoking statement? Yes. Most definitely.

So I pose the question again: When your tank doesn’t know how to tank, your healer doesn’t have to heal if they don't want to, and your DPS is content to put forth half the effort, regardless of whether it's enough or not, how successful do you think that team will be?

Don't miss the key word there: team. Yes. A party is a team. When you queue up for something that requires a Light Party or more, you're joining a team. Indirectly, you are agreeing to play your role (to the best of your ability) as part of that team. Not knowing how is one thing, and can easily be fixed. The bigger issue I'm trying to tackle here is those who DO know how, but simply choose not to, and worse, try to justify it.

I mean, if I'm wrong and no one HAS to actually try and make effort in a party, (not because the ToS says so, but common sense) then let's all just solo PotD to 70 and call it a day, right? That's what MMOs are all about, yes?

I had a lot more written up on this until I fat fingered some keys and lost what I had. And I really don't feel like writing it up again. So I'll just reiterate what I said earlier in the thread.

Expecting DF to meet your expectations is like expecting all societies/faiths/cultures in the Real World to have the same values. It's not going to happen. If someone isn't performing, kick them. If you can't kick them, ask to be kicked yourself.

If you are dead set on playing with people that know the ins and outs of their roles and also know the fights, then find those people, add them to your friends list and stick to fixed parties. Because you're rarely going to see it in DF. This should be common knowledge by now.