Do Something About Duty Finder Already

[Owl_Hawk]

Been playing this game since launch...and I don't usually post...But I keep reaching boiling point over this issue when I use DF...Have over 3100+ Comms under my belt so it should hopefully give the amount of times i've pugged in this game...plus lvled everything to 60 mainly on DF.

everytime I quit the game for a patch or 2 or longer...its because of a very bad string of players I get thrown with in DF...They are not rude...just....sorry...but incredibly stupid OR YOU...Square Enix...have done a VERY poor job directing them:

Playing a lvl 60 dungeon...A SMN who who does NOT dot...rather spams Ruin 2 when tank has like 10+ targets up...no use of aetherflow abilities...no NOTHING...just ruin 2...A Bard who doesnt have The Wanderer's Minuet up at all for the whole dungeon..instead chooses to just jump around and ALSO does not AoE when there are many targets up...Can go on for nearly all DPS jobs....But it gets worse...

Join A9S today using DF...I see a Gladiator...yes GLADIATOR...not PALADIN...GLADIATOR and a ARCHER in my group AT THE SAME TIME....WHY ARE THEY EVEN THERE?!?!?! This is a END GAME content supposedly "Savage" content...and you let people like this slip in the cracks...how does a Gladiator who doenst have Shield oath..expect to hold aggro off people in full 270? And ofc I leave...and then...Why must I be punished for 30 mins because of them? and I've seen many people without Jobs in 60 dungeons when I play...why are they even allowed to Q without Jobs after Haukke Manor? That should be the FINAL dungeon for a player allowed to Q as a non-Job...Yet many times I see people in lvl 40 dungeons or 50 and the worst part...SIXTY with no jobs. I do not want the SAME experience at 70 with people who did not get the 30-70 Job-Only abiltiies...and have to sit there explaining to people, who some...DONT HAVE KEYBOARDS or dont even KNOW how to communicate! they just sit there silently when you ask "Why are you not a bard? Why archer?"

You just allow people to lvl via Fates or Quests and then they have no idea what to do in a group setting.

Do the following already:

NO ONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO Q FOR ANYTHING PAST HAUKKE MANOR UNLESS THEY HAVE A JOB EQUPPED..KEEP SPAMMING A MESSAGE THAT TELLS THEM TO GO GET IT A MAP ICON THEY CANNOT TAKE OFF TO SHOW THEM WHERE TO GO.

Make Tests...yes TESTS...But instead of a dummy standing still...use Bots who will simulate real players in that situation depending on the role for lvl 30 onwards that players MUST pass in order to unlock the next 10 levels of group content:

For Dps they would have 3 tests to pass:

A single Target dps test where they must kill a Bomb creature before it blows up..NO ECHO!! You can give tips..but stop boosting players like this otherwise they won't learn.
A 3 Target dps test...3 bombs!
and a 4+ target dps test...MANY BOMBS!! they need to figure out that killing 1 at a time is not best and one must utilize the AoE abiltiies they get...if they cannot defeat the target on time using all the abilities they aquired up to that level..they should not be allowed to Q for anything in the next 10 levels...For example..at 30 a Bard does a test...if they pass...they can do the dungeons up to 40...and then at 40 they must do this test to pass to unlock up to 50 and so on...A Solo-but MANDATORY Guild Hest of sorts...Stop wasting resources on housing and shallow content such as glamour..and use that time to EDUCATE your players so we can all enjoy playing together and not get mad at each other!

Same for healer and tanks...healers should be able to heal a tank under light/medium and high pressure situations...tanks should be able to hold threat from single and multiple targets while bot-adventurers try to steal threat...if anyone but tank gets an A for over say...1 Min in these 3 situations..its a fail and they need to repeat...simple as that...if these players cannot fulfill their role in the group...they shouldnt be allowed to group.

Square-Enix you would not hire a programmer for a programming position if they don't know what to do in that role...If Yoshi-P had randoms from the street who had no clue on game coding..this game wouldve collapsed after 1.0...and just like joining a group with people who have no clue what they are doing..it will collapse...and is INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING...it is not our job to teach players how to play YOUR game...YOU need do that...you can start by sorting out tooltips such as DoTs so people know how much potency a dot does over specified time..so that new playerss dont look at "Potency: 30 over 30 seconds" and say "Oh Ruin does more dmg..it's 80"...JUST WRITE 300 POTENCY OVER 30 SECONDS! Why all this guess work? and same with stats such as crit/det and speed and parry...let people know what they are getting...it really is basic stuff...This should be your priority..i've gone thru this in 2.0 and now 3.0 and I don't want to do this for 4.0...No more Gladiators in lvl 70 dungeons who can't hold aggro please!!!!!!

TLDR:

Solution 1: improvement of Tooltip...Other MMOs have done a great job showing dmg and what each ability does PRECISELY especially with abilities such as dots..this game really needs improvement on that..and this will help players to help themselves. Many players DONT KNOW that Potency of a dot is for every 3 second tick and so don't know what they full potency of a DoT is for example. Nor do they understand the threat generated by comboing abilities rather than just spamming the 3rd attack without a combo. So, a clear tool tip saying 30 Potency over 30 seconds = 300 Potency over 30 seconds....x6 Dmg-As-Threat for Rage of Halone Combo finsher, etc.

Solution 2: Bar those who are not equipped for a DF to enter DF...just like there is Item Level Requirements...there needs to be Job requirements...it's not asking for much for people to show up with all their abilities on hand. Showing up as a 60 WAR without Defiance or Deliverance is almost as bad as showing up naked. There should be a lock to Q for anything after Haukke manor similar to if a Gatherer or Crafter decided to Q up for battle content.

Solution 3: After all those abilities ARE on hand...a trial that makes sure they know how to use them when and where WITHOUT other players time being wasted...players can discuss and help making things better and more efficient outside..but basics of a job MUST be known...A test every 10 levels means you can teach a job in INTERVALS...not just expect them at max level to fully use their rotation all of a sudden..and if they fail this trial...a simple pop-up msg "Always keep Bio II, Miasma, Bio on your target as much as possible" and add a "And use Bane" for the trial of AoEs for example as a lvl 30 trial for SMNs...So then 30-40 they will always do that...then say, at 50 they will get shadow flare..it lets them know to add that too...stuff like that the devs can do...you cannot tell me this is impossible..its been done in ALL FF GAMES via bosses! THEY are the trials that stop you from going forward if you haven't properly used your skills! It helps you LEARN to use what you have gotten so far, when, where and how. if a person burns their TP AoEing a single target..they will fail the trial and realize they need to chance..and vice versa with a multi target trial if they decide to single target only. this is HELPFUL not HURTFUL to players.



Edit: Keep hearing alot of "There is not much that can be done about bad players":

There CAN be alot done...and I put those things in my post...(Force Jobs for DF post Haukke, improve tooltips so people understand the ability more and 3 tests for each role/Job every 10 levels after that for them to use what they just learnt in the last 10 levels)...Why do the tests work? in the other single player FF games that I am sure many of you have played..there are boss fights at different parts of the game...those boss fights are barriers to make sure you use everything you have learnt UP TO THAT POINT to good use...It won't do to just use "Attack" over and over...If you fail..that's why there is a save spot nearby..then you to recheck your gear...sort out your spells...sort out your team..your strategy etc. then try again..and if you fail again...you look again...try to see what you missed...think about it...then try again...eventually you will beat that obstacle and would've been a better player in the process and have improved. This is the simple thing I am proposing..it is not some "Elitist" mechanic..."Oh there are X many players who do more dps than you..here is where you rank on the server in dps" no...I am just saying that a Monk for example...at 30...gets Rockbreaker...the tank pulls 7 adds...Rockbreaker does 130 Potency per target vs say 150 bootshine on only 1...the test would be there so that people who only stick to their single target rotation will be FORCED out of that habit or they will keep failing...they will think "hmm this didnt work...there are still a few bombs left that blow up" and would try something different..they might ask people in game or FC...search the net...etc...when they find the answer and beat the challenge...they wouldve learnt something AND know when to utilize that strat..i really don't get this attitude of "people are bad...we can do nothing" you can make bad turn into good if there right system is in place. I am not asking for an EXTREME TEST where only top 1% of players can beat it...I am talking about basic tests to ensure people are playing their roles correctly and improve their rotations...that is all really.

And for those who say "Let people play as they want":

Yea..play how you went when you are alone or with your friends...not strangers...there is something called "being considerate"...If you are in an elevator and start singing or humming loudly...you might be enjoying yourself but if there are others there..that could be annoying...when you enter any form of public space...you should turn off that "do what you want" attitude and instead "Do what will not bother others"...its called being respectful...You don't have to like it but you would want a stranger to respect you and your needs wouldn't you? if I want a car I don't just go steal yours because I want to...or if anyone is just mad just walk around and punch people because they want you or feel like it...or I just let my kids run around a restaurant because "I want my kids to have fun" and not care you are with someone special you wanted to take out that night..."Do what you want"..ya but at what cost? ruining what others want? Especially if what others want is GOOD for you and everyone else around you? like not smoking in a public area with alot of people around you? people should always be considerate of others whether in game or not. People not playing their roles correctly ingame costs people alot of time whether from taking forever to complete a dungeon or that 30min penalty...ingame repair costs...kills their experience...and so on...And for what? for asking someone to do a Quest that unlocks their tank stance so they can actually hold aggro? Or asking someone to use a AoE when there are 10 adds right there? Is it so much to ask someone to press 1 button over another that will make other people around them happy? Your notion of "playing how you want even if it means bothering other people" is extremely selfish...All myself and many on here are asking...is for a system to help IMPROVE players...make them understand what is better...and make them prepared for the challenges ahead...And if they cannot...they should keep practicing...this is where Mentors can really step in when people ASK or have people show them...not shutting them off and making them leave the game...people who give up that easy when they are stuck will quit the game quickly anyway...MMOs need players afterall, don't they?

[ManuelBravo]

Welcome to MMO's everyone pays a fee so they can play their way. Duty finder has settings that may help, read updates. As long as they meet the requirements they can use it. As for people lacking common sense. Boy you been away far too long that isn't just here but in real life and blaming a game programmer for making the game is just a poor excuse. There are different type of players and lately most of them have very little job experience do to Palace of the Dead. So blame the player not the product or do something proactive and try to teach them. I'm surprise your using DF for Alex might as well use PF like normal people do.

Here are some tips;

Black list >>> Kick to avoid being in the same group. If Cross servers try and be productive and set rules. Other wise ask for help from your Server / FC / Friend list.

[Owl_Hawk]

Welcome to MMO's everyone pays a fee so they can play their way. Duty finder has settings that may help, read updates. As long as they meet the requirements they can use it. As for people lacking common sense. Boy you been away far too long that isn't just here but in real life and blaming a game programmer for making the game is just a poor excuse. There are different type of players and lately most of them have very little job experience do to Palace of the Dead. So blame the player not the product or do something proactive and try to teach them. I'm surprise your using DF for Alex might as well use PF like normal people do.

Here are some tips;

Black list >>> Kick to avoid being in the same group. If Cross servers try and be productive and set rules. Other wise ask for help from your Server / FC / Friend list.

People lacking common sense I understand...But you can stop, or better yet, IMPROVE those people by setting up a system that forces them get better or not join that level of difficulty that content requires...If they do a test that forces them to play their role..and if they don't complete it..they must keep doing it over and over...they will most likely go search for ways to beat it or stop and actually READ their abilities, and in that process will learn how to better themselves in their job, and when in a group, all will have a great experience..but if we just carry people thru a dungeon or trial...it will not improve their knowledge...I don't like making comparisons to XI..but the BEST thing imo about that game was the "Genkai" fight...where you HAD to defeat a mirror job of yours 1 v 1 or else you cannot level and thus do endgame content...And it was hard for certain jobs...it forced you to really learn your job properly and thus...pugging at max level was the best experience i've had compared to all MMOs i've ever played..all knew what to do it was very relaxed when you did any content..no one is asking for absolute perfect play with 100% no errors...but at max level you should play your job and role at 90% efficiency at LEAST or else you can just stay and do the easier content that befits your skill level....Its not elitist..it's just being considerate to others if you are going to slow them down.

[ManuelBravo]

.I don't like making comparisons to XI..but the BEST thing imo about that game was the "Genkai" fight...where you HAD to defeat a mirror job of yours 1 v 1 or else you cannot level and thus do endgame content...And it was hard for certain jobs...it forced you to really learn your job properly and thus...pugging at max level was the best experience i've had compared to all MMOs i've ever played...

As per your FFXI experience I'm very familiar with it. Genkai was nice but only needed to be done once. Should of been with EVERY class. I was one of the few players who had multiple Relics and Myths So I understand your frustration. However the whole purpose of FFXIV was to be more player friendly.Yes shaving to fight a mirror fight is something that would be nice as Level cap breaker for that particular class. However, you seem to lack the basic concept that that not all players are hardcore or endgame. To be fair there are a lot of players who lack skill, yet are willing to learn and I would take them over a person who ignores team work just because they THINK they are above others. If your having a hard time finding competent people then form an FC, ask your FC, make friends and stop complaining about the play styles of others. Why should developers make the game harder when people have been asking to make it easier? Sorry I rather pay staff for new content than fix something that isn't broken. They can't help the fact that are extreme casual players out there. If anything you might consider transferring to a more hardcore base server. Common Sense ; if your paying play the way you want to. Here is a simple enough example, turn the tables, haven't you ever been placed in a position where you haven't cleared something and constantly fail with DF? and most of the PF state NO BONUS? You know you can do it if they give you a chance. What if their expectations are far different then yours and they kick you? YOU THINK it's there problem. The point is, if you still haven't caught on, is that everyone has a different play style. IF you depend on DF deal with the cards your dealt. IF you build your own party set expectations. IF this game isn't to your standards MOVE ON.

[Slirith]

Welcome to MMO's everyone pays a fee so they can play their way.

Sorry but this is a pointless statement as the parties sub fees>the "I play how I want" crowd sub fee.

[Nixxe]

Sorry but this is a pointless statement as the parties sub fees>the "I play how I want" crowd sub fee.

So if I have eight additional retainers, I can have an extra vote?

[RaijinSupreme]

Sorry but this is a pointless statement as the parties sub fees>the "I play how I want" crowd sub fee.

There's a party sub fee?

[ZioSerpe]

There's a party sub fee?

For your sub you're ruining the experience of everyone else who incidentally also pays the sub, is your sub against 3 or 7 others.
If you wanna be bad, stay out of Savage maybe though? It's intended to be made for people who wanna be good. So your argument makes no sense: not that anything you said so far did. I'm guessing that's the Norm though.

[RaijinSupreme]

For your sub you're ruining the experience of everyone else who incidentally also pays the sub, is your sub against 3 or 7 others.
If you wanna be bad, stay out of Savage maybe though? It's intended to be made for people who wanna be good. So your argument makes no sense: not that anything you said so far did. I'm guessing that's the Norm though.

But Duty Finder didn't keep the person from queueing as a gladiator, clearly.

And unless you're saying that being a skilled player is a required condition to play Duty Finder content according to the game's TOS, then you are the one not making much sense, sir.

have a good day =)

[Lufir]

Welcome to MMO's everyone pays a fee so they can play their way.

This mindset is the problem and it seems like this is a new way of thinking, because I've played a few different MMOs and have never heard people clutch to this more than on FFXIV. If you are soloing out in the world then sure do whatever the hell you want. But when you are running duties with a party, everyone has a responsibility to bring reasonable contributions to the group.

To the OP: I would suggest to start informing people (nicely) that they are doing things very very wrong and they need to pull their weight. If they don't reply or acknowledge you, kick them. It's really not okay to be in level 60 content and that clueless about your job/role. The reason why you see this more and more is because people are either afraid to speak up, or just shrug it off.