Do Something About Duty Finder Already

[Kaethra]

everytime I quit the game for a patch or 2 or longer...its because of a very bad string of players I get thrown with in DF...They are not rude...just....sorry...but incredibly stupid OR YOU...Square Enix...have done a VERY poor job directing them:

I've been playing MMORPGs for nearly 17 years. That sort of trumps your 3100comms. In that experience I can tell you that your issue is a player created one. The solution is a player created one. It is NOT SE's job to teach players to play. It is the player's responsibility to learn on their own.

You chose to PUG. Which means YOU chose to go in there with these players. You are responsible as the 'experienced' player in the group to guide them. Since you chose not to. Because you chose to complain. You are the problem. You screwed yourself and the people you neglected.

You have a few choices.

1. Take personal responsibility. Be the solution, not the problem.
2. Stay out of PUGs.
3. Quit.

I'm not going to tell you which to pick. That's your choice to make. But SE isn't responsible for your issues.

[Iromi]

OP , I think the only fix for this (for now) is to do what I do..I just avoid the DF all together. I can't remember the last time I used DF for something (playing with randoms)..I always wait for my FC and just go with them. We all pull our own weight and those who can't, we patiently teach/help them. Last time I went through what you did , I also took a long break from the game due to being burnt out.

I've been around since 1.0 days and the second I saw them announce the DF I knew this is what it would be...ugh.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I'm fairly certain SE can see what's exactly going on with-in instances. So I highly doubt this weak slippery slope you are trying to create doesn't quite exist to the extent you think it does.

Slippery slope? No. Thought provoking statement? Yes. Most definitely.

So I pose the question again: When your tank doesn’t know how to tank, your healer doesn’t have to heal if they don't want to, and your DPS is content to put forth half the effort, regardless of whether it's enough or not, how successful do you think that team will be?

Don't miss the key word there: team. Yes. A party is a team. When you queue up for something that requires a Light Party or more, you're joining a team. Indirectly, you are agreeing to play your role (to the best of your ability) as part of that team. Not knowing how is one thing, and can easily be fixed. The bigger issue I'm trying to tackle here is those who DO know how, but simply choose not to, and worse, try to justify it.

I mean, if I'm wrong and no one HAS to actually try and make effort in a party, (not because the ToS says so, but common sense) then let's all just solo PotD to 70 and call it a day, right? That's what MMOs are all about, yes?

[ZioSerpe]

There's a party sub fee?

For your sub you're ruining the experience of everyone else who incidentally also pays the sub, is your sub against 3 or 7 others.
If you wanna be bad, stay out of Savage maybe though? It's intended to be made for people who wanna be good. So your argument makes no sense: not that anything you said so far did. I'm guessing that's the Norm though.

[Lufir]

So...

You don't really have an issue with Duty Finder.

You just have an issue with the players that use Duty Finder.

ok.

Well, Duty Finder acts as a platform for this kind of stuff so it's understandable. Since you are partied with people outside your server, it creates this situation where you can play with someone just once and possibly never again. So, it allows the opportunity for players to be extremely rude and obnoxious, or terribly bad at their job to the point of not caring. There have been plenty of debates about the effect of toxicity that comes with cross-server type queues in popular modern MMOs. It's also why FFXI was seen as the powerhouse of a strong, community-based game. You had to interact with people before, during, and after inviting them to your party. Bad players had a reputation and you either had to change your attitude and/or play style, or good luck soloing.

[Owl_Hawk]

I've been playing MMORPGs for nearly 17 years. That sort of trumps your 3100comms. In that experience I can tell you that your issue is a player created one. The solution is a player created one. It is NOT SE's job to teach players to play. It is the player's responsibility to learn on their own.

You chose to PUG. Which means YOU chose to go in there with these players. You are responsible as the 'experienced' player in the group to guide them. Since you chose not to. Because you chose to complain. You are the problem. You screwed yourself and the people you neglected.

You have a few choices.

1. Take personal responsibility. Be the solution, not the problem.
2. Stay out of PUGs.
3. Quit.

I'm not going to tell you which to pick. That's your choice to make. But SE isn't responsible for your issues.

Been playing MMORPGs since Ultima..so I have experience too...I said the 3100 comms to show experience with this game only as each MMO is different.

And there CAN be alot done...your 3 choices are not the only choices...It is not up to players to fix other players...they can be 1 solution...but this whole "stay out of pugs or quit" is rubbish talk...I've met alot of great players in PuGs and I am sure it will continue...but I raise this thread to raise a solution that CAN fix alot of bad PUG groups...doing nothing/"Oh just accept it" is not improving the game...Where was this attitude when people complained the fights were too hard? For that it was OK to complain but for this its "accept or quit"? I've layed out 3 solutions...

Solution 1: improvement of Tooltip...WoW and others have done a great job showing dmg and what each ability does PRECISELY..this game really needs improvement on that..and this will help players to help themselves. Many players DONT KNOW that Potency of a dot is for every 3 second tick and so don't know what they full potency of a DoT is for example. Nor do they understand the threat generated by comboing abilities rather than just spamming the 3rd attack without a combo.

Solution 2: Bar those who are not equipped for a DF to enter DF...just like there is Item Level Requirements...there needs to be Job requirements...it's not asking for much for people to show up with all their abilities on hand. Showing up as a 60 WAR without Defiance or Deliverance is almost as bad as showing up naked.

Solution 3: After all those abilities ARE on hand...a trial that makes sure they know how to use them when and where WITHOUT other players time being wasted...players can discuss and help making things better and more efficient..but basics of a job MUST be known...A test every 10 levels means you can teach a job in INTERVALS...not just expect them at max level to fully use their rotation..and if they fail this trial...a simple pop-up msg "Always keep Bio II, Miasma, Bio on your target as much as possible" for example as a lvl 30 trial for SMNs...So then 30-40 they will always do that...then say, at 50 they will get shadow flare..it lets them know to add that too...stuff like that the dev can do...you cannot tell me this is impossible..its been done in ALL FF GAMES via bosses! THEY are the trials that stop you from going forward if you haven't properly used your skills!

[RaijinSupreme]

For your sub you're ruining the experience of everyone else who incidentally also pays the sub, is your sub against 3 or 7 others.
If you wanna be bad, stay out of Savage maybe though? It's intended to be made for people who wanna be good. So your argument makes no sense: not that anything you said so far did. I'm guessing that's the Norm though.

But Duty Finder didn't keep the person from queueing as a gladiator, clearly.

And unless you're saying that being a skilled player is a required condition to play Duty Finder content according to the game's TOS, then you are the one not making much sense, sir.

have a good day =)

[Gemina]

Much like the healer DPS debates, this isn't a technical issue with the game the devs can fix. This is a community problem, and it is up to the community to solve it. They can implement these tests, trials, instances or whatever to fill a requisite before queue, but do you think it is really going prevent the bad and lazy play? Let's not pretend that only players without their soulstone in a high level instance are the only ones.

You get a level 60 gladiator in your DF, what do you do?

- Kick them, right? But the other two players have been in a 30-40 minute queue waiting for tank to show up.
- So continue on then? But then this player learns that being a level 60 GLA is accepted.
- The decision is made to kick him, and 10 minutes later an inebriated PLD finally shows up and can't tell which direction faces up.
- The decision is made to keep the GLA and push on and you clear the instance... in 45 minutes.

That is the Duty Finder for you. This feature of them game finds duties and matches players in the queue. The party finder is the feature where you create the expectations for those who wish to join your party.

I know it sucks, but the bad and lazy players have as much right to use DF as those who try their best to play optimally. They indeed are paying a sub, and this gives them that right. It doesn't mean we have to deal with poor etiquette. You can vote kick, abandon, ask to be kicked, use PF, run the instance with your FC and/or friends, the options are there. I understand that DF is convenient as premades can take some time. Just like anything else though, convenience is paid for with inconvenience. The true requirement for DF is that you are willing to roll with the punches.

[RaijinSupreme]

snip

But the OP is requesting for the developers to do something about Duty Finder, when actually Duty Finder in of itself is not the cause of the OP's issues. Its the people who use duty finder that the OP has an issue with. That isn't something SE can "do something about" Bad players will be bad, no matter what you manor of hand-holding you give them. Only thing that could solve that is if SE decides to ban any player from Duty Finder that isn't skilled enough to play with the OP, and I'm sure you know what would happen to a large percentage of the player base if that happens.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Let's play the foresight extremes game:

"Just run stuff with your FC or people on your level" - Everyone isolates themselves in statics and FCs and avoids DF/PF, players not in FCs (they don't HAVE to be in an FC/static, right?) are unable to clear anything and stop trying, queues get longer, content dies.

"You're part of the problem." (For expecting a reasonable standard) - People who CAN see the issue fall silent or move on, the blind start leading the blind, no one's able to clear anything and stops trying, start avoiding DF/PF, queues get longer, content dies.

"Teach them." - Player tries to teach, gets ignored or attacked with self-righteous "I pay my sub, I play how I want" tripe, stops helping, avoids DF/PF, helpful players decline, blind leads the blind, no one's able to clear anything, queues get longer, content dies. . .

Stop me when it starts sounding bad!

. . . I'm aware SE isn't privvy to do much about an issue largely rooted in player mentality and etiquette, but there ARE some gaps where a certain degree of follow up is safe to be expected in order for players to flourish, and they just. . . don't. Something's got to give.