DualShocker Interview - 3.5 pt 2 next week, supposedly

[Magic-Mal]

One fight I like that's not 100% dependant on DPS? Diabolos Hollow. In the end it turns into a fight for survival rather than DPS DPS DPS DPS. Healers HAVE to heal. And they usually heal a ton. Raising. Using that LB3. Winning at that point is all on the healers. That makes the fight unique. It also makes it headache-worthy when healers are bad...

[Evergrey]

-snip-

Yeah, I'm worried that it would end up with alot of copy+paste skills. =/

But I like that idea you said.
That's a unique defensive skill not yet seen. And it also builds on the PLD's "nature" that he/she is a knight protecting others.

[Kit-Kat]

One fight I like that's not 100% dependant on DPS? Diabolos Hollow. In the end it turns into a fight for survival rather than DPS DPS DPS DPS. Healers HAVE to heal. And they usually heal a ton. Raising. Using that LB3. Winning at that point is all on the healers. That makes the fight unique. It also makes it headache-worthy when healers are bad...

The more you DPS, the less the fight lasts on the last stage. So yes, Diablo is still DPS dependant. If you have derpy players running around without paying attention eating every red ball and placing all earthshakers in the same spot, and the constant stack mechanic buster on tank. The longer the fight gets, the worse it gets and this is why everything is tied to DPS, even 'casual' content. A fun fact is, healers HAVE to heal more in that phase because people don't do mechanics right.

[NaesakiAshwell]

The more you DPS, the less the fight lasts on the last stage. So yes, Diablo is still DPS dependant. If you have derpy players running around without paying attention eating every red ball and placing all earthshakers in the same spot, and the constant stack mechanic buster on tank. The longer the fight gets, the worse it gets and this is why everything is tied to DPS, even 'casual' content. A fun fact is, healers HAVE to heal more in that phase because people don't do mechanics right.

I had a Diabolos Hollow were someone got the "meteor" marks and ran into the middle of raid, we somehow...somehow won that fight thanks to healer LB3's but watching 2 and a half alliances drop was just something else x___x

Also in another fight, the 3 earthshaker victims all ran to the same corner for 'reason'. I just like to imagine they all looked at each other were like, "So this is it huh? The ultimate sacrifice."

[Naunet]

The Phageborn Convergence in WildStar (especially when Sword is one of the active bosses) is a fight that I think does a good job of being less about dps and more about mechanics, proper tanking, and healing without feeling super gimmicky. The sword boss has an equalize ability that he casts periodically (pretty much after every middle phase - which is a part in the fight where one boss teleports to the center of the room and the raid has to deal with a special mechanic that's different for each), which equally redistributes the remaining combined health of all living bosses. The primary strategy to deal with Sword comp (and he's up 99% of the time) is to control your dps to take advantage of equalize to slowly whittle down the HP of the other three bosses. Thus to beat the fight, dps is not at all "everything" and much of the fight is simply about properly dealing with and surviving mechanics (until the very end, where you've ideally knocked down everyone to <10% with equalize, and it's a race against the clock to kill them all, because with each boss death the room becomes increasingly dangerous).

The only encounter that even comes close to that in FFXIV is that boss in Pharos Sirius that spawns dogs at certain HP percentages.

[Ultimatecalibur]

The only encounter that even comes close to that in FFXIV is that boss in Pharos Sirius that spawns dogs at certain HP percentages.

Symond the Unsinkable, Zu and (to a lesser extent) the Siren are cases where to much dps makes the fight harder as you end up pushing add phases into mechanics/AoE phases.

SE also has a bad habit of making fights with fairly short enrage timers and where the longer you take the harder the fight gets. Savage Cruise Chaser is a good example of this as every skipped limit cut reduces the damage it deals in later phases. More dps doesn't just allow you to skip mechanics it actively makes the later mechanics easier.

In order for being defensive/playing it safe to be a viable strategy the longer a fight goes on the easier it needs to get. If Cruise Chaser started with X damage up buff stacks at the start, lost one each time it did limit cut and an enrage happened when it does limit cut when it has no stacks you would have a fight where dps is important but the fight gets harder if you focus on dps to much but you still need a minimum amount of dps.

[Zojha]

Symond the Unsinkable, Zu and (to a lesser extent) the Siren are cases where to much dps makes the fight harder as you end up pushing add phases into mechanics/AoE phases.

Ifrit EX straight wipes you if you deal too much damage and accidentally push past a nail phase. It is pretty much the only wipe cause in unsync.

We have several fights in this game actually that punish you for having good or well geared DPS players and/or excellent healers/tanks, mostly old ones. And the big question is: Why exactly are you punishing players for taking part in the vertical progression you offer and why exactly are you punishing players for playing their job well...?

With all due respect: The notion is pretty perverse. You should reward people for playing their jobs to the fullest and gearing up, not punish them for it. It should make fights easier, not harder as you suggest. It doesn't even solve the issue, because the meta for those fights doesn't become to take it slow, it's to go full speed until you hit the stop sign, wait, then go full speed again and rinse/repeat until you can safely full speed to the end.

It just seems like a helpless attempt to achieve something without addressing the actual issues.

[St0rmchild]

Ifrit EX straight wipes you if you deal too much damage and accidentally push past a nail phase. It is pretty much the only wipe cause in unsync.

We have several fights in this game actually that punish you for having good or well geared DPS players and/or excellent healers/tanks, mostly old ones. And the big question is: Why exactly are you punishing players for taking part in the vertical progression you offer and why exactly are you punishing players for playing their job well...?

You're not being punished for overgearing/being gud, you're being punished for cheesing the fight (pushing through and thereby disregarding mechanics phases)

[loreleidiangelo]

You're not being punished for overgearing/being gud, you're being punished for cheesing the fight (pushing through and thereby disregarding mechanics phases)

Have you actually done Ifrit EX when it was current? That and T7 were notorious for having parts where you'd basically have to stop attacking or else you hard-wiped (Ifrit) or had a phase transition so awkward it 99% of the time led to a wipe (Melusine). T7 in particular had a lot of skilled raiders complaining about the awful phase push once their DPS started to get decked out in full 110s. All mechanics were being done properly, there was no "cheese" involved. (How would you even cheese those fights, anyway?)

[Ultimatecalibur]

Ifrit EX straight wipes you if you deal too much damage and accidentally push past a nail phase. It is pretty much the only wipe cause in unsync.

Levi, Ramuh and Shiva also do that. Levi will wipe if you push before the shield can charge up after the add phase and Ramuh will wipe if pushed before all the adds are killed.

All these happen for the same reason: the add phase's anti-boss burn trigger (i.e. the trigger that gets you to actual attack the adds) is hit accidentally due to programing priorities. These are all cases where dps is so good that it causes a dps check phase to break in a negative manor.

We have several fights in this game actually that punish you for having good or well geared DPS players and/or excellent healers/tanks, mostly old ones. And the big question is: Why exactly are you punishing players for taking part in the vertical progression you offer and why exactly are you punishing players for playing their job well...?

With all due respect: The notion is pretty perverse. You should reward people for playing their jobs to the fullest and gearing up, not punish them for it. It should make fights easier, not harder as you suggest. It doesn't even solve the issue, because the meta for those fights doesn't become to take it slow, it's to go full speed until you hit the stop sign, wait, then go full speed again and rinse/repeat until you can safely full speed to the end.

It just seems like a helpless attempt to achieve something without addressing the actual issues.

There is a difference between rewarding players for being better geared and playing better and rewarding players for doing more dps. The second is a part of the first but not all of it.

More defensive tanks should be rewarded for surviving more damage longer and good healers should be rewarded for healing through harder challenges.

A shorter kill would be the reward all 3 roles receive for doing better and being better geared.