As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Lambdafish]

Scholar is a shield healer, thats all

SCH literally has more skills that are DoT focused than they do shield related heals. You are correct that SCH does its healing through shields, but it is also a pet healer, and a DoT based DPS as a secondary. You can't pick and choose traits of a job and ignore the rest, SCH is more than 4 abilities on your hotbar.

I believe I have explained my philosophy on healer DPS, and have defended your raid ethic on several occasions, but to say that DPS isn't part of SCHs identity is as stupid as saying it isn't part of WARs identity (Fell cleave is for progression right?).

[Feyona]

SCH literally has more skills that are DoT focused than they do shield related heals. You are correct that SCH does its healing through shields, but it is also a pet healer, and a DoT based DPS as a secondary. You can't pick and choose traits of a job and ignore the rest, SCH is more than 4 abilities on your hotbar.

I believe I have explained my philosophy on healer DPS, and have defended your raid ethic on several occasions, but to say that DPS isn't part of SCHs identity is as stupid as saying it isn't part of WARs identity (Fell cleave is for progression right?).

Well im a healer first and foremost so if people need healing i will heal and ignore the dps ones as that is my priority. Sch is not a dps class. And its doubtful that it will be made into one because thats what summoner is for

[Lambdafish]

Well im a healer first and foremost so if people need healing i will heal and ignore the dps ones as that is my priority. Sch is not a dps class. And its doubtful that it will be made into one because thats what summoner is for

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Then you (as a WHM) shouldn't be DPSing, the SCH should. That is the pro DPS argument in raid, one person handles healing, one person DPSes and heals when they need to. If you find yourself not healing in certain phases though, then you DPS.

This isn't a black and white conversation, and is completely different in raiding than dungeons. Having two healers means that optimal play has one healer primarily healing, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't DPS when they can, only that they won't get many opportunities too.

SCH is suited as the DPS-Healer like WAR is the DPS-Tank, and they have so many skills that support them in this design space, rouse, bane, DoTs, shadowflare, 3 single target attacks, and energy drain, most of which compliment them as a healer, as they deal damage while the faily or player heals. That is how the job is designed whether you like it or not, and content is designed to allow them to be played that way.

Edit: I should add to the above is that if both Healers are 100% healing, then you WILL be overhealing and wasting time and MP, the exception being lots of deaths or a healing check.

[Deliciou5]

I'm sorry but how does that even make the slightest bit of sense? Someone doesn't want to do a secondary role, so that means the primary role is not for them...how does one even make such a conclusion? Let alone, the truth is this. The reason healers have offensive spells is for progression. I don't think you can go through solo content with heals alone. People can try to justify dpsing as a healer, but at least be logical with it.

How the game is designed that its way more efficient in most content to perform your secondary role to the best of your ability. If read and taken into consideration my whole post instead of looking at individual parts in a bubble you would realize of why there is very little justification to let "i don't like DPSing" to hold you back from dpsing just as much as someone who did.

You don't break black mage up into fire or ice mages, you don't break bards up into archer or song bards, you do everything. The primary and secondary role thing only matters is when your in a 8 man party where you can be a main healer instead of dpsing where you are allowed by parties standards to play your job differently for more tactical reasons

Also the bit about her not being right for her job was to illustrate the point that even though she dpes she must really not like using her entire toolkit, it's like saying on black mage should only use ice spells instead of fire ones...because the fire spells don't appeal to her...but she will begrudgingly will use fire spells. So when i say that healer is not for her, that she doesn't enjoy playing it correctly and that objectively always going to be a worse player for it. That maybe she should find a game where heal only playstyle is more efficient...or play a different job that she will enjoy using her entire toolkit for.

I understand the nuances of harder fights in how you may have to main heal or delegate roles or that you may need to hold back sometimes to regen mp. But for everything i seen she posted she doesn't seem to enjoy a basic thing of her job...DPS. So maybe these version of healers in FFXIV are not really for her, since as i explained in my post the meta of healers is to create as many windows for dps while keeping people alive. If you want to glide by on easy content and not dps at all, you may even get away with it since most parties i seen don't bust each other's chops, but it's extremely hard to justify her position when breaking it down.

I don't see primary or secondary roles, i just see the entire job and it's potential. The role healer in FFXIV means the same for all healers in FFXIV, keep people alive while doing dps and supporting the party with buffs/debuffs.SE designed the game for every class to dps more,it's practically the meta for every role outside of dps roles... they didn't add anything like crowd control/pure support abilities that need to be managed more(like haste in FFXI) or other things for healers to do.

Your speech is fine, and agree for the most part but we wernt talking about dungeons, up to the point where you say emotions etc are bs. Unless you are a robot weve all got them. Look over the posts and you will see that many people have some kind of emotional responses to different aspects of the game. This game was not orignally designed for cleric to be used the way it is, its the coms idea. Thats why in some instances theres an issue with it, and some healers are worried about cleric.'I can do it so its fine' attitude isnt for everyone. Humility is much more likeable than 'Im better than you'

I am above average player at best,I also consider the emotions of the party before my own since i don't see myself playing a single player game.That's where i choose to place my emotions, and if i lack humility because of it...i can live with that because i rather save the entire party the headache of dealing with a sub par healer and unnecessarily wasting people's precious limited time in their mortal coil.

[Feyona]

How the game is designed that its way more efficient in most content to perform your secondary role to the best of your ability.

The majority of players on this game are maybe what you would call 'sub par' then, and that could be called 'elitist'. As I have said before theres not everyone plays to their absolute best at all times and to the absolute optimal level. Everyone also has differing levels of skill. Healer is healer priority at all times is to heal if necessary and even within the healing only camp there are differing levels of skill and if you cant acccept that on a social game or 'waste your time' on people maybe its you that doent like people and shouldnt play with them.I have bard, blm and tank there is absolutely no comparison

[Deliciou5]

The majority of players on this game are maybe what you would call 'sub par' then, and that could be called 'elitist'. As I have said before theres not everyone plays to their absolute best at all times and to the absolute optimal level. Everyone also has differing levels of skill. Healer is healer priority at all times is to heal if necessary and even within the healing only camp there are differing levels of skill and if you cant acccept that on a social game or 'waste your time' on people maybe its you that doent like people and shouldnt play with them.I have bard, blm and tank there is absolutely no comparison

I said this before, i am very accommodating person, my behavior in this thread doesn't really reflect what i say or do in game. I said multiple times i don't really give people shit in game or try to boot them or bully anyone.Also i don't see it as wasting my time moreso than wasting everyone's time since i am not a selfish person overall and i put the party before myself. I am far from elitist, i just know if i don't try my best then i am basically taking advantage of everyone who is putting in their best...i cannot be that selfish, it's not in my nature.

[Feyona]

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SCH is suited as the DPS-Healer like WAR is the DPS-Tank, and they have so many skills that support them in this design space, rouse, bane, DoTs, shadowflare, 3 single target attacks, and energy drain, most of which compliment them as a healer, as they deal damage while the faily or player heals. That is how the job is designed whether you like it or not, and content is designed to allow them to be played that way.

Edit: I should add to the above is that if both Healers are 100% healing, then you WILL be overhealing and wasting time and MP, the exception being lots of deaths or a healing check.

Whether you like it or not scholar is a healer, not a dps. Tanks dpsing is not as different as healing is to dps. Its a completely different skill set for a healer to change to dps. I do so hope SE gives scholar their identity back as a healer as otherwise we only have 2 healing classes to choose from.

[Feyona]

I said this before, i am very accommodating person, my behavior in this thread doesn't really reflect what i say or do in game. I said multiple times i don't really give people shit in game or try to boot them or bully anyone.Also i don't see it as wasting my time moreso than wasting everyone's time since i am not a selfish person overall and i put the party before myself. I am far from elitist, i just know if i don't try my best then i am basically taking advantage of everyone who is putting in their best...i cannot be that selfish, it's not in my nature.

Yes well do you realise that I always do my best for other people too, and if I say I cant dps in a situation it means I actually cant. And maybe that goes for the majority of healers and the ones being harrassed to dps when the situation doesnt allow it.

[Neela]

Whether you like it or not scholar is a healer, not a dps. Tanks dpsing is not as different as healing is to dps. Its a completely different skill set for a healer to change to dps. I do so hope SE gives scholar their identity back as a healer as otherwise we only have 2 healing classes to choose from.

well... sch was the only healer I got known as dps-hybrid from the very beginning because their dps-skills and support skills come hand in hand. Setting up DoTs in cleric while Lillys autoheals gave you a fair time window to do so. switching back on heavy impact with single & aoe insta heals or to re/precast shield(s) - while DoTs continue to tick with cleric-stat-dmg. schs are (at least for me) the most flexibel ones if we talk about stance-dancing imo... actually its their identity. dunno which other identity you are talking about if we just focus on schs here....

whm feels different for me although I could set up dots as well... but if I dps as whm its mostly aoe dmg in mobs (holy, wind III or asizes) or stone-burst-dmg. there is just bene and/or preset-regs for covering your dps time window - you have to be more flexibel and way faster in stance dancing if it comes to unexpected dmg-impact while you are in cleric.

similar to asts but they have skills which make your reactions even easier to compensate - like synergy, light speed or the insta stance-casts.


I think if we talk about off-heal-dps all 3 cls can burst some fair amount of dmg, if we talk about main-heal-dps - sch/asts got some minor advantages compared to whm in stance dance... but well in the end it doesn't matter which cls you play – u have to be confident situational finding your own time-window to dps ^^

[Feyona]

well... sch was the only healer I got known as dps-hybrid from the very beginning because their dps-skills and support skills come hand in hand.


I think if we talk about off-heal-dps all 3 cls can burst some fair amount of dmg, if we talk about main-heal-dps - sch/asts got some minor advantages compared to whm in stance dance... but well in the end it doesn't matter which cls you play – u have to be confident situational finding your own time-window to dps ^^

Im not sure otherwise wouldnt it be a dps role? After all support classes are dps. And if that was the case why has it got as much healing potency as the other 2 healers? Why does SE want it to stay balanced as a healer rather than a dps? This opinion really comes from the community that sch is more dps.Besides the fact that it has far more abilities than any other class to use at once doesnt feel 'right'