As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

Because most healers in this game think it's a free ride to clear content while catching up on their latest shows.

I really dont understand this mentality of 'free ride' On a10s requires both healers to deal with prey or its usally a wipe . If I dont heal the traps at beginning its a wipe if i dont heal tank buster and prey its a wipe. So healers got nothing to do? Maybe not in your group, but in mine i got to heal. I also really dont get why people are also resentful of helping each other.

[Taika]

I really dont understand this mentality of 'free ride' On a10s requires both healers to deal with prey or its usally a wipe . If I dont heal the traps at beginning its a wipe if i dont heal tank buster and prey its a wipe. So healers got nothing to do?

You do realise that the healers who are DPSing are also dealing with these same mechanics and in addition to that contributing to damage? I don't know what healer setup your group is running but for the AoE damage in the beginning there I will have my fully buffed (Rouse + Fey Illumination) Whispering Dawn on the party combined with Fey Covenant (to shield against the damage a bit) while our AST has their AoE regens up on group as well. With all that, both of us can sit in Cleric Stance while the regens will handle the healing. Tank busters should be fine with pre-shielding + Virus/Disable if the tank has Regen. For Preys our tanks use Living Dead / Holmgang and it's one heal from both us healers (Essential Dignity + Emergency Tactics Adlo) to get them back to full after (edit: misunderstood this for the tank "preys", for the other preys we only heal with AoE regen from AST and fairy). We seem to cast our first non-regen heals around when the first add appears or after that (looking at a video from our latest kill, my first non-fairy heal in the fight was an Adlo on tank for the tank buster that comes while the first add is up).

Based on your comments, it seems that you should look into how to use your healing abilities more effectively and also in synergy with your other party members. When you'll learn to heal better, you will find a lot more room for DPS too.

[Feyona]

You do realise that the healers who are DPSing are also dealing with these same mechanics and in addition to that contributing to damage?

I play ast in static, my co healer is sch. If I dont helious between traps even with regen my group will die. As aoe takes group down very low. For prey its passed to ranged. And have to helios before second prey when the aoe hits, regen myself and ranged. After roller stage healing tank busters and cards. I dont have the space my co healer dpses when he can. On a9s I constantly heal the tank in between acid rain and adds. If I dont cast benefic on tank he will die. For a11s Ill dps orbs if co healer gets crit adlo after rocket.Thing is we dont skip things much group is pretty good to get so far, but the only time Ive been in pro group was on wmg and I get how its done in those groups and the differece is considerable. My team is semi casual . I can say though if everyone plays optimal, its easier. Groups arnt all optimal though. Im not an expert either only been playing ast for few weeks.

[Lambdafish]

I play ast in static, my co healer is sch.

Then you shouldn't be DPSing, the SCH should. That is the pro DPS argument in raid, one person handles healing, one person DPSes and heals when they need to. If you find yourself not healing in certain phases though, then you DPS.

This isn't a black and white conversation, and is completely different in raiding than dungeons. Having two healers means that optimal play has one healer primarily healing, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't DPS when they can, only that they won't get many opportunities too.

Co-ordination is key to playing a good healer, and healer DPS should be a natural question when planning how you will beat content. As I said before though, Healer DPS is literally irrelevant until you hit enrage or clear, so focus on whatever helps you clear the content.

Cos healers get the blame if people die. After all it is their true job

Pretty sure if I die as a main tank, then the party wipes. You think that we don't have pressure in our jobs?

I'll never understand why healers are always the ones to complain the most about having to put in more effort than the bare minimum.

We are talking about savage raid content, not dungeons. The argument isn't black and white.

[HoodRat]

Then you shouldn't be DPSing, the SCH should. That is the pro DPS argument in raid, one person handles healing, one person DPSes and heals when they need to...Having two healers means that optimal play has one healer primarily healing...

That is incorrect. Both healers are able to dps. Optimal play with two healers is basically the same as optimal play with two tanks. For tanks, you utilize tank swaps and CDs as necessary so that both tanks can spend as much time as possible in dps stance. For healers, both healers should use the heals they have which are more appropriate for the situation so that both can stay in cleric stance as much as possible.One thing I've learned recently is that the whole mt/ot and mh/oh thing isn't the best way to go in this game. "Shared responsibilities" provides better results. However, I've noticed that many people are just incapable of doing this. From personal experience, it seems that it's not a lack of skill, it's just a lot of people refuse to accept the fact that the "mt" and the "mh" can contribute to dps as well.

We are talking about savage raid content, not dungeons. The argument isn't black and white.

In any content, if you know what you're doing you'll have time to dps. If you don't know what you're doing you probably won't be dpsing, or if you are people are dying. Just like in dungeons, you have to learn when you need to heal and when you can dps in raids. Sounds pretty black and white to me.

[Lambdafish]

That is incorrect. Both healers are able to dps. Optimal play with two healers is basically the same as optimal play with two tanks. For tanks, you utilize tank swaps and CDs as necessary so that both tanks can spend as much time as possible in dps stance. For healers, both healers should use the heals they have which are more appropriate for the situation so that both can stay in cleric stance as much as possible.One thing I've learned recently is that the whole mt/ot and mh/oh thing isn't the best way to go in this game. "Shared responsibilities" provides better results. However, I've noticed that many people are just incapable of doing this. From personal experience, it seems that it's not a lack of skill, it's just a lot of people refuse to accept the fact that the "mt" and the "mh" can contribute to dps as well.

You are correct, however that doesn't make me incorrect, as I already mentioned this. You are still acting like the argument is black and white, and it is far from it.

What you are describing is pro level optimal play (the difficulty of achieving which is subjective, but we can at least concede that this is how expert healers play), and it is not essential that healers at all levels conform to this to be a valid member of the party. My idea of MH/OH wasn't intended to represent the best way to heal, but rather to give inexperienced raid healers like Feyona an idea of how raid DPS can be co-ordinated easily between the two healers. The type of healing you are describing comes with experience, muscle memory, and knowledge of fights and there is no way that it can be achieved as an ameteur healer who doesn't know the fight.

As an example, I would compare this level of play to WARs and DRKs who can MT in DPS stance, something which is not essential, but will mark you as a good tank. On the flipside, a tank who OTs in tank stance, and doesn't utilise their full toolkit (WAR not using storms eye/path, a DRK not using darkside/dark arts, and a PLD not using goring blade) is the equivilent of a healer who idles when they should be doing something. There is a middle ground, in fact there is a whole spectrum of middle grounds that label you as anything from an average healer to an amazing healer.

In any content, if you know what you're doing you'll have time to dps. If you don't know what you're doing you probably won't be dpsing, or if you are people are dying. Just like in dungeons, you have to learn when you need to heal and when you can dps in raids. Sounds pretty black and white to me.

You'll notice I already said this:

but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't DPS when they can, only that they won't get many opportunities too.

to which I should add "and the more someone knows the fight, the more opportunities you will find", however this should not be forced on a healer by another member of the party, and even less someone on the forums, as these moments are found through practice and an in depth knowledge of their role.

[Feyona]

Then you shouldn't be DPSing, the SCH should. That is the pro DPS argument in raid, one person handles healing, one person DPSes and heals when they need


Pretty sure if I die as a main tank, then the party wipes. You think that we don't have pressure in our jobs?



We are talking about savage raid content, not dungeons. The argument isn't black and white.

I would never say that tanks dont have pressure, or healers, and even dps have pressure in statics to get their rotations and openers right. All Im saying is we dont need the added pressure of cleric when content is already potentially stressful. And some simply dont understand that you dont always have the space. Perhaps though the tank dps is a little more predictable, whereas no one knows when someone will need healing or if a tank will mess up.Like Ive already said Iwould never stand around. I think parsers show my activity around 95% . I do over heal but most of that is from regens and thats 70% of my overheal. I think you are right in your above comment too, about experts and average

[Lambdafish]

All Im saying is we dont need the added pressure of cleric when content is already potentially stressful.

In the example that I outlined, cleric stance is pretty equivilent to tank stances, as I explained to Hoodrat above "I would compare this level of play to WARs and DRKs who can MT in DPS stance, something which is not essential, but will mark you as a good tank", this can be directly compared to cleric, where the off-healer (in your case, the SCH ideally) is in cleric unless they are needed for intense healing, and the main-healer stays in heal stance (i.e. no cleric). If you are exceptional, or there is a gap for it, then the main healer can drop into cleric stance, exactly as the above example shows with tanks, but you should not do this until very comfortable with the content, and very aware of your limitations.

So no, cleric stance should not be removed unless they are overhauling and improving the entire stance system in general.

[Feyona]

In the example that I outlined

So no, cleric stance should not be removed unless they are overhauling and improving the entire stance system in general.

As ive said Im not opposed to healer dps whoever wants to. I would like to see healing more valued or respected though. I would like a choice of dpsing or not for the sake of enjoyment, but if healers dps stays then would like cleric changed into something that makes it not so stress inducing. There could be many different ways of doing this, like not having a cd or even making dps part of the job without stance changing. Other games havent got this 'awkward' mechanic. Its awkward because it was never intended to be used like it is.