As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Judge_Xero]

I'll never understand why healers are always the ones to complain the most about having to put in more effort than the bare minimum.

Because most healers in this game think it's a free ride to clear content while catching up on their latest shows.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Do you realise I already know how to dps as healer? Im saying its optimal play and situationally dependant. Well tbh Its seems like its you that only sees things one way , and Im still thinking about my experience not existing, and SE made it so content can be cleared without healer dps so why are you still banging on about it being mostly necessary?

If you're aware it's optimal and situation dependent, I am not sure why you're exactly complaining about the concept of healer DPS unless you want to put in less effort to get content done.

And no, I'm not saying it's necessary. I don't believe I've ever said it is or was. I did say that it was part of the meta and the meta is defined by something that started with a small group of people and has been adopted by a large group of people. It takes the majority for a concept to be called a meta. You seem to experience this kind of democracy as a "dictatorship". Which is something I have also mentioned in another topic where I replied to you. So I'll break it down to the root of you and hopefully you'll understand why the healer is pushed with extra duties aside from just pressing that cure button.
Healers are simply in a position to make an encounter more forgiving for everyone. Tanks can only take so much damage, DPS can only deal so much damage. They're gated by gear, mechanics and player skill and are often challenged by the encounter on these two things: eHP and DPS checks. Healers can offer more mitigation to increase survivability. Meaning less HP required before attacks can be survived on their own. Tanks (and dps/healers as well) won't instantly get punished for not being overgeared or for entering at minimum ilvl requirement. Or in other words: Mitigation from healers make an encounter more forgiving.
Remember when I mentioned DPS checks just now? Healers are also in a position to help ease this up or "make it more forgiving". DPS jobs (and tanks) are limited to their gear, skill, and encounter mechanics. Because healer damage isn't included for DPS checks, it eases up said checks. Or rather: It makes DPS checks more forgiving. It allows the group as whole to make mistakes in their rotation and suffer potential damage loss. It makes lack of gear more forgiving as well.
The healing output any of the healer can put out simply blows away any form of HPS checks the game has right now. Sure, there are times when both healers need to heal. But there are also times when neither healers have much to heal. Until Square-Enix introduces content where the healers are using every GCD on a healing spell and are rooted on the ground because they can't afford to stop casting, healers will always have time to make an encounter more forgiving for the whole party. So why bring two healers instead of one if the HPS checks are so low? Because that'll make the encounter more forgiving for those in the healing role! On your own you can afford no mistakes. Together it makes mistakes more forgiving. If you simply don't like making encounters more forgiving for others, others may not be so forgiving for not putting in that extra effort. And concerning effort, I believe we have thoroughly discussed this in another topic you've started.

[Feyona]

I'll never understand why healers are always the ones to complain the most about having to put in more effort than the bare minimum.

Cos healers get the blame if people die. After all it is their true job

[Feyona]

Because most healers in this game think it's a free ride to clear content while catching up on their latest shows.

I really dont understand this mentality of 'free ride' On a10s requires both healers to deal with prey or its usally a wipe . If I dont heal the traps at beginning its a wipe if i dont heal tank buster and prey its a wipe. So healers got nothing to do? Maybe not in your group, but in mine i got to heal. I also really dont get why people are also resentful of helping each other.

[Feyona]

If you're aware it's optimal and situation dependent, I am not sure why you're exactly complaining about the concept

Keep saying why I dont like healers being forced to dps over and over. Plus gave you examples of the impact cleric can have. While you have some reasonable points I dont think the game should be ruled by dps. The game is the way it is atm, but I dont think stress factors need to be encouraged though. Plus I do value freedom of choice on a game thats supposed to be enjoyable for people. This is just too toxic. Believe it or not I rarely put in 'less' effort even when Im just healing so I see now the difference in perception comes from and how its hard to understand each other

[Taika]

I really dont understand this mentality of 'free ride' On a10s requires both healers to deal with prey or its usally a wipe . If I dont heal the traps at beginning its a wipe if i dont heal tank buster and prey its a wipe. So healers got nothing to do?

You do realise that the healers who are DPSing are also dealing with these same mechanics and in addition to that contributing to damage? I don't know what healer setup your group is running but for the AoE damage in the beginning there I will have my fully buffed (Rouse + Fey Illumination) Whispering Dawn on the party combined with Fey Covenant (to shield against the damage a bit) while our AST has their AoE regens up on group as well. With all that, both of us can sit in Cleric Stance while the regens will handle the healing. Tank busters should be fine with pre-shielding + Virus/Disable if the tank has Regen. For Preys our tanks use Living Dead / Holmgang and it's one heal from both us healers (Essential Dignity + Emergency Tactics Adlo) to get them back to full after (edit: misunderstood this for the tank "preys", for the other preys we only heal with AoE regen from AST and fairy). We seem to cast our first non-regen heals around when the first add appears or after that (looking at a video from our latest kill, my first non-fairy heal in the fight was an Adlo on tank for the tank buster that comes while the first add is up).

Based on your comments, it seems that you should look into how to use your healing abilities more effectively and also in synergy with your other party members. When you'll learn to heal better, you will find a lot more room for DPS too.

[Feyona]

You do realise that the healers who are DPSing are also dealing with these same mechanics and in addition to that contributing to damage?

I play ast in static, my co healer is sch. If I dont helious between traps even with regen my group will die. As aoe takes group down very low. For prey its passed to ranged. And have to helios before second prey when the aoe hits, regen myself and ranged. After roller stage healing tank busters and cards. I dont have the space my co healer dpses when he can. On a9s I constantly heal the tank in between acid rain and adds. If I dont cast benefic on tank he will die. For a11s Ill dps orbs if co healer gets crit adlo after rocket.Thing is we dont skip things much group is pretty good to get so far, but the only time Ive been in pro group was on wmg and I get how its done in those groups and the differece is considerable. My team is semi casual . I can say though if everyone plays optimal, its easier. Groups arnt all optimal though. Im not an expert either only been playing ast for few weeks.

[Lambdafish]

I play ast in static, my co healer is sch.

Then you shouldn't be DPSing, the SCH should. That is the pro DPS argument in raid, one person handles healing, one person DPSes and heals when they need to. If you find yourself not healing in certain phases though, then you DPS.

This isn't a black and white conversation, and is completely different in raiding than dungeons. Having two healers means that optimal play has one healer primarily healing, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't DPS when they can, only that they won't get many opportunities too.

Co-ordination is key to playing a good healer, and healer DPS should be a natural question when planning how you will beat content. As I said before though, Healer DPS is literally irrelevant until you hit enrage or clear, so focus on whatever helps you clear the content.

Cos healers get the blame if people die. After all it is their true job

Pretty sure if I die as a main tank, then the party wipes. You think that we don't have pressure in our jobs?

I'll never understand why healers are always the ones to complain the most about having to put in more effort than the bare minimum.

We are talking about savage raid content, not dungeons. The argument isn't black and white.

[HoodRat]

Then you shouldn't be DPSing, the SCH should. That is the pro DPS argument in raid, one person handles healing, one person DPSes and heals when they need to...Having two healers means that optimal play has one healer primarily healing...

That is incorrect. Both healers are able to dps. Optimal play with two healers is basically the same as optimal play with two tanks. For tanks, you utilize tank swaps and CDs as necessary so that both tanks can spend as much time as possible in dps stance. For healers, both healers should use the heals they have which are more appropriate for the situation so that both can stay in cleric stance as much as possible.One thing I've learned recently is that the whole mt/ot and mh/oh thing isn't the best way to go in this game. "Shared responsibilities" provides better results. However, I've noticed that many people are just incapable of doing this. From personal experience, it seems that it's not a lack of skill, it's just a lot of people refuse to accept the fact that the "mt" and the "mh" can contribute to dps as well.

We are talking about savage raid content, not dungeons. The argument isn't black and white.

In any content, if you know what you're doing you'll have time to dps. If you don't know what you're doing you probably won't be dpsing, or if you are people are dying. Just like in dungeons, you have to learn when you need to heal and when you can dps in raids. Sounds pretty black and white to me.

[Rubiss]

I'll never understand why healers are always the ones to complain the most about having to put in more effort than the bare minimum.

No idea. I find it pretty annoying as a healer myself. Like I'll see a WHM or AST even a SCH (no excuse) standing around when everyone has full HP. Like, wow. Could you be anymore useless right now? Just do some damage man.