Community expectations

[Kosmos992k]

The person you quoted was talking about Zurvan EX.

Zurvan EX is not in the Duty Finder. You can only PF a full group or try Raid Finder (but no one usually uses the Raid Finder for it since most groups only go with one tank and the RF forces two)

So I think you might be misunderstanding.

Possibly, I wasn't so much responding to the specific point of Zurvan EX as I was the sentiment behind the post, which seemed to be that Duty Finder is there for experienced players and Party Finder is there for others.

I wasn't talking so much about skipping Soar in Zurvan EX as I was about the philosophy of how to use Duty Finder vs Party Finder.

[VeliusVire]

The JP community is more organized because gaming as a hobby / recreational activity is taken more seriously in Japan. That and as a society they take a fundamentally different approach towards respect to group time and dynamics.

The DF on Japanese servers isn't treated as a testing ground and the "who cares it's just ----" mentality isn't prevalent because while the level or ease of content may be insignificant what they as players are treating with value is your time an issue that we currently have in the western community.

Incidentally if the latest unofficial census is to be believed Tonberry has the lowest Savage Alexander clear rare of ALL Japanese servers while also having the largest western presence.

Food for thought.

Just....I love you for this, that's all.

[Kallera]

Just....I love you for this, that's all.

I keep seeing this and while it sounds like a good lesson, it keeps manifesting into other problems on the NA server from both ends. What community is left is too fragmented.

[Kosmos992k]

Please make sure you read carefully so there's no further misunderstanding.

I have indeed done so, and will be removing my post, since it's not relative to this discussion.

[Reynhart]

Meeting proper minimum ilvl for a dungeon or at the very least keeping up with gear appropriate for the level of content isn't really that hard of a concept. Same goes for hitting more than 3 buttons and not being an ice mage etc.

People keep using that example, but the truth is far more blurry. I'm not talking about doing half your full potential. It's more like "We should be at 75%, we're at 77%, you're out"

They intentionally have made stats a non-choice

They also have made secondary stats pitifully weak compared to main stats. As a tank you could stack all the parry you can, and your overall DPS would barely suffers. Yes, you can be kicked for not wanting to use Grade V materia on intermediate gear (True story)

If you are still learning a fight's mechanics don't join a farm party.

If we're in a learning party (Either by party or by raid finder specifically set to welcome first timers) don't throw the lack of DPS when 2 minutes into the fight when we're still learning.

Then make one?

Will it suddenly change the mentality of all parties that plays that way ? When did "not skipping Soar" became "not being able to carry one's weight through the content" ?

which seemed to be that Duty Finder is there for experienced players and Party Finder is there for others.

Since you can't set any requirement in the Duty Finder, you have to accept who the game throws at you. If you have higher expectations, Party Finder is there so that you can clearly express them and people will be fully aware of that.

[alimdia]

People keep using that example, but the truth is far more blurry. I'm not talking about doing half your full potential. It's more like "We should be at 75%, we're at 77%, you're out"

Hyperboles aren't gonna reinforce your stance, you know very well that attitude isn't as common as you make it out to be, nearly all DF complaints are because of DPS doing less damage than tanks (aka going afk mid fight very often) and healers acting like heal bots, very few people care about min maxing in DF.

[GeminiXIV]

Snip

Youre using alot of extreme examples that rarely ever happen.

Also the whole Soar issue isnt something you should be concerned about when making your own party. I dont even know why wanting to skip Soar bothers people. Its the easiest thing to skip.

[Ryel]

People keep using that example, but the truth is far more blurry. I'm not talking about doing half your full potential. It's more like "We should be at 75%, we're at 77%, you're out"

They also have made secondary stats pitifully weak compared to main stats. As a tank you could stack all the parry you can, and your overall DPS would barely suffers. Yes, you can be kicked for not wanting to use Grade V materia on intermediate gear (True story)

Your "truth" is just the opposite.

You need look no further than this very forum to see the content of threads from players who have been kicked, or to other threads containing screenshots posted of various people entering dungeons in gear that is sometimes over 100 ilvls under what they should be wearing or containing the wrong primary stat.

A tank can stack all the parry they want, yes but luckily all parry gear also has VIT on it. Stacking all DEX or INT gear however would be a terrible choice just as it would be for a DPS to stack VIT gear and there are cases where players do exactly that to fudge ilvl.

Additionally according to the GM guidelines you can be kicked for just about anything as far as "differences in playstyle" are concerned but you aren't likely to be kicked from anything short of raids for lack of melds and even then it isn't likely you're going to be kicked for melding IV's instead of V's

If we're in a learning party (Either by party or by raid finder specifically set to welcome first timers) don't throw the lack of DPS when 2 minutes into the fight when we're still learning.

You can still be learning and be massively below where you should be.

If you are in a learning party and your damage is low enough to hinder the progression of the 7 others in the party and they wish to remove you as to increase their odds (unlikely but possible), you cant force them to continue wanting to play with you.

Eat the kick and move on.

Maybe you get better and it doesn't happen again? Maybe you weren't really the problem and it was just that party? It happens.

Will it suddenly change the mentality of all parties that plays that way ? When did "not skipping Soar" became "not being able to carry one's weight through the content" ?

Why does it have to change the mentality of all parties playing that way?

Are you trying to change the way every single person plays or are you trying to clear / farm the content?

Once again go make that "Skipping soar not required" party or that "Soar learning" party let it fill with people who dont care about skipping soar; get your kills, your weapons, and your bird and have a good time.

Who cares what the other parties are doing? Is it up to you or anyone else to police the entire PF?

If enough like minded players decide that they dont care about soar and wish to put up PFs for it then the PF will be full of those parties.

It really is that simple.

[Aylis]

When did games stop being about just having fun....

The big thing to remember is, this is an MMO and in MMO's everyone has their own feelings as what's fun. Some find fast efficient fun, some find slow and methodical fun, some find spending two hours in a dungeon just goofing off, chatting and taking screenshots fun. To each their own. It's why we can't stress enough for the player to look for others and friends that share their idea's of what is fun and what isn't.

[Reynhart]

You need look no further than this very forum to see the content of threads from players who have been kicked, or to other threads containing screenshots posted of various people entering dungeons in gear that is sometimes over 100 ilvls under what they should be wearing or containing the wrong primary stat.

In this very forum, you'll also see topics about healers being kicked for healing, and off-tanks being kicked for not being in tank stance. Far more blurry

If enough like minded players decide that they dont care about soar and wish to put up PFs for it then the PF will be full of those parties.

On paper, yes. Problem is, the "only look for optimal" mentality is so vocal and strong that it even the producer takes it into consideration. That's the official reason for why we don't have more diverse gear and builds.