Dps As Healer

[Ilenya]

Most of the healers that aren't comfortable dpsing I've come across aren't / wouldn't be able to handle healing intensive fights. So unless you want to wipe 5 times a dungeon while a healer struggles to keep you alive (which ALREADY happens sometimes) sure.

I get what you mean, but I'm a SCH main. I would be the one healing it.

[NanaWiloh]

Hey, it's my video and here's the original post about it:



I'm absolutely flabbergasted that some people still defent this kind of healer play as good healer play and valid play style. I didn't even have to cast a single Cure during the pulls...

35% over heal is way too much for how good that tank was. You can achieve less over heal and still get dps time by actually letting the tank get down to like 50% or lower when its safe rather then bombarding him with heals.

[Taika]

35% over heal is way too much for how good that tank was. You can achieve less over heal and still get dps time by actually letting the tank get down to like 50% or lower when its safe rather then bombarding him with heals.

Yeah, my whole point was, I barely cast anything during the whole dungeon run, my activity was only 17%, and I was still overhealing for over 35%... That's how little healing is required for majority of the content, and that's how little a healer contributes in their party if they're not DPSing.

[JunseiKei]

Before the first round of buffs AST was just plain bad, there's no ifs or buts, it was inferior to both other healers and there was no reason to raid with it

I could give you a couple of reason I don't personally agree AST was inferior, just simply a difference in skill and available tools:

Essential Dignity: Up to 1,000 potency instant heal usable every 40 seconds. That alone offsets the healing potency differences.
Disable: Reduces 10% of all damage- originally this was next skill and not lasts for 6 seconds, so yes, it was a bit difficult to time, the fact it leaves supervirus usable, too, made it a pretty powerful asset.

However, after 2 years of the tried-and-true composition of WHM and SCH as well as Gordias Savage being more difficult, I could see why people opted to simply not take risks (which is what AST was to them- a risk). People were (and sometimes still are) stuck in the notion that WHM, AST and SCH have oh-shit heals that had been largely viewed as such in raid content (have seen this echoed on tanks as well with Hallowed, Holm and Living). IE: Benediction, Lustrate, Essential. AST doesn't have such a tool (well, now it arguably does since its healing potencies were increased, giving up less of a reason to really use essential outside of mistakes on most content).

Please note, I'm not trying to change your mind nor anyone else's, just a small explanation of why I choose to say what I have said. The changes would have been made anyway simply because of the fact that not everyone could equally pick up AST and play it. This is called lowering the skill ceiling and exactly what we are seeing in upcoming changes to role skills and skill updates and removals in Stormblood.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Bourne_Endeavor
Likewise, my only requirement as a DPS is to deal damage.

I personally have gotten into a "war" with people over something like this, as a DPS style main myself i personally like Classes more since they are more like what a RDM will be, jack of all trade with the cross skills and all. As you said a DPS is just there to add damage, no set amount either, heck most runs could just be Tank and Healer, the two DPS are there for nothing but a bit of added damage nothing more nothing less.
I say if a Healer wants to attack for some DPS go for it, people need to remember the person playing that character can do whatever they want, THEY pay the sub, not you.

If we're going to attempt that logic. Let's break it down. In a party of four, where three people want to move through the dungeon quickly, by refusing to DPS as a healer, you are holding them back. Why does your "playstyle" supersede theirs? Their combined sub is higher than yours.

See the faulty logic? Paying a sub entitles you to play the game. It doesn't dedicate you get to play it however you fancy. If it did, we could break it down further with extreme examples-- all of which are perfectly viable under the nebulous term "I pay my sub." You can't have it both ways. Either this is a team oriented game where everyone is expected to reasonably contribute or it isn't.

If your main job really IS DRG you would know this is not entirely correct....especially lately. If you're a good dps you're paying attention to what the tank and heals are capable of and switching your targets constantly, so as not to pull aggro off undergeared/"not so qualified" tanks, or pick up targets that stray to healers that aren't able to control their aggro, for whatever reasons.

Mindlessly going through your dps rotation without regard to the rest of the party's situation makes you a bad dps.

Read what you actually quoted. That statement came as a direct response to someone claiming healers should only heal because that is there role. I was being purposely facetious since no one is a good player if they ignore a portion of their abilities. Hence my point. I agree. That isn't what I should do nor do I. That then begs the question if you have those expectations for DPS roles why are healers exempt? Everyone should use their entire arsenal.

We also need to remember that the devs are aware that a good chunk of people who choose to play a healer want to heal and don't care about DPS. If they wanted to DPS, they would have rolled a DPS class. They have access to better metrics than we ever will. I'm expecting the new content in Stormblood to be healing intensive enough to see that the healers who do DPS will be in the single digit percentile.

Oh and to the people who think that a healer who is not always casting is lazy... sometimes its nice to play a class where its not always 100% go go go go go. The little pauses are a nice stress reliever for those who want to have a nice job, keep people alive and relax. If your DPS players are complaining that the run is not going fast enough, dont look at the tank or healer to bolster your DPS, look in the mirror first.

Do I DPS? Sure do, when I want to or when I am comfortable doing so. I don't always do so, especially when I don't feel comfortable with the group and its dynamics. Though, even on those runs when I could DPS, sometimes I don't. Why? Well, because I got off of my full time job, finished taking care of my family and want to enjoy a nice dungeon run without the added stress of doing max numbers, perfect rotations and totally optimized performance. I do that enough in Savage raiding, sometimes I just want to chill.

Why do you get to be special? As a DPS, I have to maintain a constant rotation every 2.5 seconds but you get to "not always be 100% go go go." As for bolster our own DPS...

Holy has a potency of 900 spread across six targets. Replacing a single Holy with Aero III bolsters that damage to 1170, provided the mobs live long enough. A combo chain of Heavy Thrust, Ring of Thorn and Doom Spike x4 has a potency of 960.

Please explain how I can make up what is essentially my own damage a second time over?

No one is asking you to fully optimizing, but we are once again back to why you get to be special? Neither tanks nor DPS get to use "I had a hard day" as an excuse to be less efficient. If you want to chill, run content with your friends. Jumping into a party of random players and willfully contributing less means you are placing yourself and your interests above theirs. There is a significant different between optimizing every single dungeon run and throwing out DoTs and Holys from time to time. The latter tells me you're at least trying. It doesn't need to be perfect, it's simply appreciated.

[DamianFatale]

Can I use this excuse to not keep BotD up? I'm having a bad day and it's just too much effort to manage all my oGCDs. What about defensive cooldowns? I just want to Fell Cleave for days and blowing Vengeance and Raw Intuition means more Fell Cleaves or Decimates.

You DO NOT know other people's mental states. For some people doing all these things on a bad day is fine, but when you're like me, and you struggle with depression, and chemical imbalances in your brain, a simple bad day can feel unnavigable. Those of us in that situation don't want to just drop everything and not do what they love, but it doesn't mean that we can always handle it. Honestly because of this, healing is the best job for me. It's much easier on my head to learn how to heal properly, then worry about learning a dps class, which focuses on the mathematical side of my brain. Try and realize that there is more to life than just yourself. If it were all about you, it'd be a single player game.

[loreleidiangelo]

For once I don't plan on jumping headlong into this debate, but I did want to say that I'm encouraged by YoshiP's statement. Even as someone who does play optimally in our current meta I've been furiously argued with simply for wanting changes to healing design so that healers aren't DPSing so much and it's nice to see that even if changes aren't immediately coming, acknowledgement that the current meta is problematic is still a chance that a healing rework or better fight design might be on the way.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You DO NOT know other people's mental states. For some people doing all these things on a bad day is fine, but when you're like me, and you struggle with depression, and chemical imbalances in your brain, a simple bad day can feel unnavigable. Those of us in that situation don't want to just drop everything and not do what they love, but it doesn't mean that we can always handle it. Honestly because of this, healing is the best job for me. It's much easier on my head to learn how to heal properly, then worry about learning a dps class. Try and realize that there is more to life than just yourself. If it were all about you, it'd be a single player game.

You realize this statement is inherently hypocritical, yes? Why does your personal problems supersede mine or anyone elses? I don't know nor do I particularly care. That may sound blunt, however we all have personal gripes in some form or another. I dealt with depression too. I don't expect random people I meet in a game to cater to my potential problems or appreciate my decision to stand around and only heal, thus slowing them down. It's an entirely different scenario if you're new or inexperienced. Communicate that, and most people are receptive. How you factor a healer should contributed just as much as everyone else (i.e. not stand around doing nothing) is self-centered... makes no sense. There are three to seven other players besides yourself. Which is the crux of my point. The many outweigh the few, so to speak.

[Khemorex]

True, Healing is the Main Job for a Healer, but the fights in this game par Savage are so ridiculously undertuned, that non-DPS healers will find themselves not doing anything for the majority of the runs.

We can concede to the fact, that DPS that can't do acceptable DPS is a bad DPS. A tank that only spams Flash to keep enmity is a bad tank. But the Healer party is the only one justifying standing around for extended periods of time as good play.

Maybe Healing as a whole should be made more intensive for Stormblood? That way healers would actually have to actively Heal instead of either being asked to DPS or being a dead weight 50% of the time by lazing around.

I'm not gonna initiate a vote kick against non-DPS healers, but I'm not gonna acknowledge actively sitting on our hands over several GCDs as a "good" way of playing for any class.

thats ok , tho always have in mind to be not inconvenient to your group ^^ i mean theres so many players with different play styles, mentalitys, and skills or awareness for whatever reason currently in RL someone has.
I can understand why it can be frustrating sometimes when u dont get what u want. It happens to me to.

But as community we can only grow , if we dont make us feel uncomfortable witch each other.
Mmmmh a healer whos uncomfortable with dpsing , is less likely to try to dps , as long theres people who start to immediately bitch coz the tank or someone else died if it happens XD

No one wants to play with someone whos constantly bitching around XD so dont make ur in game life hard by yourself :P

[RLofOBFL]

I'm not picking on you, but this is rather petty to do. Let's say your healer's also not in a good mood, and now you've gone out of your way to do things to complicate matters for them. Perhaps they can't keep up and die, then the rest of the party dies, and they angrily leave the instance. . . Your selfish desire to force another player to do what you want them to do has not only affected both you and them, but the other 2 players that perhaps may have been performing their roles properly. In short, fighting fire with fire, or taking it upon yourself to determine what the other person should be doing is really just sabotaging your party's ability to succeed. Bad form.

I am willing to admit that I am petty person. But I promise I don't let it ever get that bad. If I notice them struggling I won't purposely screw us up so we'd die, I'll use one of the many self heals/buffs I have to prevent this. As PLD or WAR it's easy to survive without a healer at all in at least half the 60 dungeons(all of them if you exclude bosses) so even if the healer did mess up I am confident the DPS & I would survive as I don't pull heavily with terrible DPS & outgoing mob damage is far too low in small packs. I know I'm just excusing my bad petty habit & I admit it is wrong but it has always worked out & it always will. Tanks are very powerful at mob survival. I have done full 60 dungeons as PLD with no healer & have healed them all as well so I know what can & can't handled. fully admit I'm being awful...It's inconsiderate to the healer but they're being inconsiderate themselves by barely performing. So...yeah fire with fire ruining team stuff I'm sorry >.<

But if the healer does leave, I can almost always just solo the dungeon anyway and I'd rather not carry 10-15s wait until my hp is 5K to heal people type healer :x