Dps As Healer

[Khemorex]

True, Healing is the Main Job for a Healer, but the fights in this game par Savage are so ridiculously undertuned, that non-DPS healers will find themselves not doing anything for the majority of the runs.

We can concede to the fact, that DPS that can't do acceptable DPS is a bad DPS. A tank that only spams Flash to keep enmity is a bad tank. But the Healer party is the only one justifying standing around for extended periods of time as good play.

Maybe Healing as a whole should be made more intensive for Stormblood? That way healers would actually have to actively Heal instead of either being asked to DPS or being a dead weight 50% of the time by lazing around.

I'm not gonna initiate a vote kick against non-DPS healers, but I'm not gonna acknowledge actively sitting on our hands over several GCDs as a "good" way of playing for any class.

thats ok , tho always have in mind to be not inconvenient to your group ^^ i mean theres so many players with different play styles, mentalitys, and skills or awareness for whatever reason currently in RL someone has.
I can understand why it can be frustrating sometimes when u dont get what u want. It happens to me to.

But as community we can only grow , if we dont make us feel uncomfortable witch each other.
Mmmmh a healer whos uncomfortable with dpsing , is less likely to try to dps , as long theres people who start to immediately bitch coz the tank or someone else died if it happens XD

No one wants to play with someone whos constantly bitching around XD so dont make ur in game life hard by yourself :P

[Khalithar]

Maybe Healing as a whole should be made more intensive for Stormblood? That way healers would actually have to actively Heal instead of either being asked to DPS or being a dead weight 50% of the time by lazing around.

I'll say what I said earlier in the thread. Even if they do make healing more intensive in Stormblood, unless they add a mandatory unavoidable minimum ilevel synch to literally every dungeon, sooner or later we will overgear it and then this entire conversation will just start all over again.

[Kathryn]

Well, If Yoshi said Healers are there to Heal there's only 1 solution they could do without changing any of the classes or removing anything and its to make monster hit EVERYONE hard so a healer is constantly healing to keep the party alive and cant even get the time to consider throwing in a debuff or damaging spell anywhere, The only problem is then is everyone will complain and cry "It's too hard waah waahh", Sadly the poor devs are stuck in a hard place with a bunch of ungrateful spoilt and self entitled players that they cannot win with any decision they make.

[Ilenya]

Well, If Yoshi said Healers are there to Heal there's only 1 solution they could do without changing any of the classes or removing anything and its to make monster hit EVERYONE hard so a healer is constantly healing to keep the party alive and cant even get the time to consider throwing in a debuff or damaging spell anywhere, The only problem is then is everyone will complain and cry "It's too hard waah waahh", Sadly the poor devs are stuck in a hard place with a bunch of ungrateful spoilt and self entitled players that they cannot win with any decision they make.

Is it wrong that I would like that sort of challenge? I don't think most healers would be upset if the outgoing damage was actually something dangerous.

[bardaboo]

Is it wrong that I would like that sort of challenge? I don't think most healers would be upset if the outgoing damage was actually something dangerous.

Most of the healers that aren't comfortable dpsing I've come across aren't / wouldn't be able to handle healing intensive fights. So unless you want to wipe 5 times a dungeon while a healer struggles to keep you alive (which ALREADY happens sometimes) sure.

[Ilenya]

Most of the healers that aren't comfortable dpsing I've come across aren't / wouldn't be able to handle healing intensive fights. So unless you want to wipe 5 times a dungeon while a healer struggles to keep you alive (which ALREADY happens sometimes) sure.

I get what you mean, but I'm a SCH main. I would be the one healing it.

[Rubiss]

Well, If Yoshi said Healers are there to Heal there's only 1 solution they could do without changing any of the classes or removing anything and its to make monster hit EVERYONE hard so a healer is constantly healing to keep the party alive and cant even get the time to consider throwing in a debuff or damaging spell anywhere, The only problem is then is everyone will complain and cry "It's too hard waah waahh", Sadly the poor devs are stuck in a hard place with a bunch of ungrateful spoilt and self entitled players that they cannot win with any decision they make.

It's okay. We can leave the game as is. So broken and easy that you can drop tanks and healers and just DPS through mechanics with so little healing required that a fairy can do over 30% healing in the hardest current content. That way the healers who find it too hard to DPS can keep doing that and those who want to DPS things while healing, as intended, can do just that. Everyone wins.

[JunseiKei]

Before the first round of buffs AST was just plain bad, there's no ifs or buts, it was inferior to both other healers and there was no reason to raid with it

I could give you a couple of reason I don't personally agree AST was inferior, just simply a difference in skill and available tools:

Essential Dignity: Up to 1,000 potency instant heal usable every 40 seconds. That alone offsets the healing potency differences.
Disable: Reduces 10% of all damage- originally this was next skill and not lasts for 6 seconds, so yes, it was a bit difficult to time, the fact it leaves supervirus usable, too, made it a pretty powerful asset.

However, after 2 years of the tried-and-true composition of WHM and SCH as well as Gordias Savage being more difficult, I could see why people opted to simply not take risks (which is what AST was to them- a risk). People were (and sometimes still are) stuck in the notion that WHM, AST and SCH have oh-shit heals that had been largely viewed as such in raid content (have seen this echoed on tanks as well with Hallowed, Holm and Living). IE: Benediction, Lustrate, Essential. AST doesn't have such a tool (well, now it arguably does since its healing potencies were increased, giving up less of a reason to really use essential outside of mistakes on most content).

Please note, I'm not trying to change your mind nor anyone else's, just a small explanation of why I choose to say what I have said. The changes would have been made anyway simply because of the fact that not everyone could equally pick up AST and play it. This is called lowering the skill ceiling and exactly what we are seeing in upcoming changes to role skills and skill updates and removals in Stormblood.

[Miste]

That alone offsets the healing potency differences.

No...no it didn't.

All of AST's healing spells were less direct healing potency than a WHM along with all of their attached Regens in Diurnal.

Nocturnal paired with a WHM wasn't as bad because Nocturnal Stance had 5% healing potency up buff attached to it and you still got the party MND buff. WHM + AST pair suffered where DPS was concerned because no Fairy meant no auto-bot healing while healers DPS'd a bit longer, but WHM regens are quite powerful and along with Asylum and if AST had some luck with cards it wasn't too big of a loss.

AST + SCH though? Terrible. Diurnal not only had weaker direct heals and weaker regens, but this pair also never got the party MND buff. Lacking the MND buff too dropped AST's already worse healing potency even farther and also reduced healer DPS contribution.

AST was supposed to be a flexible healer that could pair with either WHM OR SCH....but they didn't balance it properly.

Anyone who collected the 'numbers' and compared them could see AST healing potency was a lot lower than WHM and SCH no matter how skilled you were.

AST was failing at it's main role basically. Yes, they could clear content back then, but it was unnecessarily harder than it needed to be (for the AST and for the co-healer) since it wasn't as strong with its main healing role as a WHM and SCH were.

In general none of the healers should have quite a bit less healing power than the others because healing is their main role. Obviously there are some differences between the healers still, but the main point was that the gap of healing potency between AST and WHM/SCH was just a bit too far. The healers can vary in healing power slightly from each other but they have to stay relatively close because healing is the main role.

[loreleidiangelo]

For once I don't plan on jumping headlong into this debate, but I did want to say that I'm encouraged by YoshiP's statement. Even as someone who does play optimally in our current meta I've been furiously argued with simply for wanting changes to healing design so that healers aren't DPSing so much and it's nice to see that even if changes aren't immediately coming, acknowledgement that the current meta is problematic is still a chance that a healing rework or better fight design might be on the way.