Got kicked from The Aetherochemical Research Facility by mentor

[bardaboo]

people like you shouldn't be mentors.
yet this community calls you lazy.

A lvl 60 dungeon IS NOT THE PLACE TO ASK FOR ROTATION ADVICE.
1. Even if you ask and one person decides to help there are 2 other people waiting now.
2. Even if you as a mentor offer unsolicited advice no matter how polite you are most people ignore or get snippy. Plus you run into white knight who say "leave him alone it's fine"
3. I don't que up expert roulette to teach people. EXPERT. KNOW YOUR CLASS
4. find nicer friends. I love actually helping my fc mates get better. But I'm not going to subject random df people to the learning process.
5. I am a short fused person when subjected to lazy people. LAZY means not learning on your own time. If i see someone in expert dungeon who sucks i should have every right to say so
Addition: if you feel that spending 30minutes online to find a proper guide is too much, too hard or a waste of time why then would you think making 3 people take 10 minutes longer in an expert dungeon either helping or carrying you IS acceptable. We value our time as much as you do. But now there are 3 of us.

[BigRed5392]

A lvl 60 dungeon IS NOT THE PLACE TO ASK FOR ROTATION ADVICE.
1. Even if you ask and one person decides to help there are 2 other people waiting now.
2. Even if you as a mentor offer unsolicited advice no matter how polite you are most people ignore or get snippy. Plus you run into white knight who say "leave him alone it's fine"
3. I don't que up expert roulette to teach people. EXPERT. KNOW YOUR CLASS
4. find nicer friends. I love actually helping my fc mates get better. But I'm not going to subject random df people to the learning process.
5. I am a short fused person when subjected to lazy people. LAZY means not learning on your own time. If i see someone in expert dungeon who sucks i should have every right to say so
Addition: if you feel that spending 30minutes online to find a proper guide is too much, too hard or a waste of time why then would you think making 3 people take 10 minutes longer in an expert dungeon either helping or carrying you IS acceptable. We value our time as much as you do. But now there are 3 of us.

why not? your rotation changes at 60, based on the job.

Also unsolicited advice isn't advice.. that just telling people what to do. to offer advice is to ask "hey want tips?" then reply as follows, if you get a no just back off.

groups time = groups time. not 1 individuals time matters, everyones time matters.

if you have a short fuse why do you play mmo?

if you can't grasp not everyone owns a pc/smartphone idk what to tell you, just wish rude players like you didn't exist.

guides are out of date. or did you not get that memo?

[bardaboo]

Snip

Hurray!! The other problem we face! A sjw to the rescue! Look. EVERYTHING I SAID WAS WRONG!!!
1. There are plenty of lvl 60 guides out there. But this issue is more along the lines of knowing job basics. Drgs that dont heavythrust. Bards that dont dot or straight shot. Blms that don't know how to astral fire umbral ice. Smns that don't dot, or bane. Monks that don't do positions. You shouldn't need a guide. Read your tool tips. Common sense. Ask an fc mate. Listen to people in dungeons. And really, if you cared about looking for info you don't need a pc or smartphone
2. I'm not rude if people listen. I'm not rude if people like you don't defend lazy people. I like helping.
3. My short fuse stems from dealing with lazy people and people like you who defend them.
4. At what point do we stop saying "oh he's new don't worry about it"? Again im not talking super optimization im talking job basics. Things that don't change at 60 at all. Things these people should know by ARF.
5. Now let's assume we can't help them if they don't ask. Now they're past ARF. are they smarter? No. Are they better? No. Do they now magically care? No. They are still lazy, and people like you help them continue on being lazy.
6. If a tank loaded into ARF in healing accesories and no tank stance. No aoe threat. Just spamming riot blade or fracture. "Um... would you like some tanking tips?" "No stfu i play how i want" or better yet no answer at all. If you wanna sit there and say you'd be ok with that uou are either a liar or the worst enabler ever.
7. Seriously. Ok. Seriously can we please stop defending the lazy people. Stop being ok carrying them.

also. Yeah it's an MMO. That goes both ways. Why would you be ok running a dungeon with someone who doesn't care how much extra time he is costing you? Would you like to be the person holding up the group? Would you be ok doing a school or work project with someone like that, someone who just doesn't care and expects to have everone else pick up his slack?

[BigRed5392]

Hurray!! The other problem we face! A sjw to the rescue! Look. EVERYTHING I SAID WAS WRONG!!!
1. There are plenty of lvl 60 guides out there. But this issue is more along the lines of knowing job basics. Drgs that dont heavythrust. Bards that dont dot or straight shot. Blms that don't know how to astral fire umbral ice. Smns that don't dot, or bane. Monks that don't do positions. You shouldn't need a guide. Read your tool tips. Common sense. Ask an fc mate. Listen to people in dungeons. And really, if you cared about looking for info you don't need a pc or smartphone
2. I'm not rude if people listen. I'm not rude if people like you don't defend lazy people. I like helping.
3. My short fuse stems from dealing with lazy people and people like you who defend them.
4. At what point do we stop saying "oh he's new don't worry about it"? Again im not talking super optimization im talking job basics. Things that don't change at 60 at all. Things these people should know by ARF.
5. Now let's assume we can't help them if they don't ask. Now they're past ARF. are they smarter? No. Are they better? No. Do they now magically care? No. They are still lazy, and people like you help them continue on being lazy.
6. If a tank loaded into ARF in healing accesories and no tank stance. No aoe threat. Just spamming riot blade or fracture. "Um... would you like some tanking tips?" "No stfu i play how i want" or better yet no answer at all. If you wanna sit there and say you'd be ok with that uou are either a liar or the worst enabler ever.
7. Seriously. Ok. Seriously can we please stop defending the lazy people. Stop being ok carrying them.

also. Yeah it's an MMO. That goes both ways. Why would you be ok running a dungeon with someone who doesn't care how much extra time he is costing you? Would you like to be the person holding up the group? Would you be ok doing a school or work project with someone like that, someone who just doesn't care and expects to have everone else pick up his slack?

except you're being part of the problem not the solution.

using strawman tactics, and semantics doesn't help your cause. Not everyone has time to look up guides.

Or has had the pleasure of meeting helpful people. The only lazy people i see are those not willing to work as a team, and give pointers politely and help out if nicely.

the second you do the "my time" thing, you lost the argument, as you are ruining someone else time as you claim they are ruining yours. Stop being selfish, and look at things from their perspective, not just your own. Be a team member and stop assuming everyone is lazy for arbitrary reasons.


It is rude to give advice forcefully, and extremely selfish to expect people to learn. You can't force people to learn, you can't force people to be helped. Forcing that advice is called patronizing. Stating that isn't me defending lazy, it is me pointing out how you are equally the problem. You don't help for sake of helping, you help for your own sake. To either a) look good. or B) to get "your" content done at "your" pace, regardless of the group.

Now if a tank shows up in healing gear (ok how? since healing gear is healer only) no tank stance and only spams 1 one button, I'd assume troll and but try to ask "hey you want any tips? or you just goofing off?" if they say a rude reply I will kick them. As it is a kick-able reason. but calling people lazy for not following your arbitrary criteria/ resume is rude, and kinda sad and to be frank selfish.

Each one of your points comes off as a selfish remark, again opinion.

Also people stop being "new" once they played the game for over a month, and have been in all content they want to partake in. You are not magically a vet @ 60. You
are not magically a vet when you get the highest ilevel or bis gear. As each doesn't take long or much to do for either.

my g/f has been playing ff14 on and off since 1.0 launch, had 17+ characters taking each to cap as each roll/job. She has been on every data center as well, looking for a good fc willing to help her out, and being supportive. Not everyone can deal with someone with ASD. But my g/f is far from lazy. She learns by doing, and is more then willing to ask questions.

But when you do ask questions, and all you get is insults or silence.. it makes it that much harder to do.

to be honest i never met lazy players... just toxic people like you and obvious trolls.

[Venoshock]

snip

lol this post is just....after reading it I wanted to smash my face into a glass spike.

first of all,i don't get what point you're trying to make here with 'The only lazy people i see are those not willing to work as a team, and give pointers politely and help out if nicely.'.

bardaboo (lol nice name) insinuated that she has offered advice before if you bothered to read point #2 that she made and is usually met with responses mentioned in#6.
I'd consider myself lazy and ignorant if i went into something willfully half-assing my job and expecting a carry in level 60 content and don't bring up the 'they might not have a computer or smartphone' argument, that's just as lame as your entire lazy-player-apologist post. If they really cared, they would of did what i did when i was a sprout and actively (the opposite of lazy) seek guidance from other players.


'the second you do the "my time" thing, you lost the argument, as you are ruining someone else time as you claim they are ruining yours. Stop being selfish, and look at things from their perspective, not just your own. Be a team member and stop assuming everyone is lazy for arbitrary reasons.'

So ok, if someone is willfuly ruining my time, I'm supposed to be ok with it? I can't speak up or I'm labeled as a selfish player? Are they seeing things from my perspective by not even trying at all? Why is it that i'm selfish in this situation and they aren't? I took the time to learn my job as i was leveling up by asking questions and doing basic reading of the tool tips to make everyone in my parties time easier, they didn't, but i'm somehow selfish, right.

'It is rude to give advice forcefully, and extremely selfish to expect people to learn. You can't force people to learn, you can't force people to be helped. Forcing that advice is called patronizing. Stating that isn't me defending lazy, it is me pointing out how you are equally the problem. You don't help for sake of helping, you help for your own sake. To either a) look good. or B) to get "your" content done at "your" pace, regardless of the group.'

Lol dude, stop throwing the word selfish around because you're using it wrong. It is not selfish to expect people to learn when been taught. It's 100% reasonable to expect people to learn when being taught lol. Your mum sent you to school to learn, That's what she expects, now you come home with terrible grades and she's shocked, what is she selfish then? no. She isn't. Same principle applies here. Your whole argument is defending level 60 players who don't care to learn - basically defending lazy people.

Oh and tanks can wear healer and dps gear. Mind, dex, int and strength accessories can be worn by any class but is usually considered non-tank gear. Come on bro you should know this by now you're level 60!

It's people like you who've made the game what it is. Defending lazy people instead of encouraging them to get better has in turn made content so faceroll easy and anything that poses a slight challenge gives this low-skilled playerbase heart failure. And don't give me that not everyone has access to a phone and computer garbage. In my old FC we had someone who is partially blind, and a girl who has a serious illness which limits her time to play yet they still give it their all and out-dps most of these lazy able-bodied players in df. Stop settling with mediocrity.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

@Venoshock

You can't call people lazy :S

Masekase_Hurricane...
those guides where out for early FFXI, but the thing is, that is not what BigRed5392 is saying. People rarely, rarely did the "look up x on y site" till very late in the game of life even past Abyssea. The thing is, you need to learn when not to judge people. Some people did do that, but it was often seen as rude and it was not hard to find elsewhere.

People should not be required to look up "guides" that means the game fails at explaining it self (unless you are talking about endgame raids, that is the point of them, trying to figure them out on your own) For the lighter raids people can explain them.

WHAT IS EXPECTED! and should be understood is, if you are new at something and feel you need tips, you better damn well say so at the start before the first pull. I was harassed by a new person before as I was attempting to heal + lightly heal carry + explain the fight to this PLD. He was harassing me as I did my best to explain it, often in broken sentences because I had to move and heal. The party was kind enough to kick him for it though.

Well I must of been an exception to the rule then. Cause I looked up every guide available to catch up when I joined around COP release. LOL I even bought the old trusty brady guide :S

Like I have pointed out numerous times I wouldn't expect anyone to read a guide for the first time entering a dungeon/trial or instance and that's including endgame i.e savage. I would expect them to ask after the run about any mechanics be it a story dungeon,instance or raid that they still do not understand prior to stepping into it again. If they can't ask anyone, as they are not available then do some research for yourself before going back into the dungeon,trial,instance or raid.

What would you suggest i do?

Ok will say it again, ask friends, ask in Fc, ask in novice before repeating a dungeon,trial or instance you are not sure about.

[Ama_Hamada]

@Venoshock

You can't call people lazy :S



Well I must of been an exception to the rule then. Cause I looked up every guide available to catch up when I joined around COP release. LOL I even bought the old trusty brady guide :S

Like I have pointed out numerous times I wouldn't expect anyone to read a guide for the first time entering a dungeon/trial or instance and that's including endgame i.e savage. I would expect them to ask after the run about any mechanics be it a story dungeon,instance or raid that they still do not understand prior to stepping into it again. If they can't ask anyone, as they are not available then do some research for yourself before going back into the dungeon,trial,instance or raid.

Ok will say it again, ask friends, ask in Fc, ask in novice before repeating a dungeon,trial or instance you are not sure about.

There was a lot of bad and outdated information though esp referencing that .... omg...
Nothing wrong with actually socializing online =/ and the thing was, I did not do that because it was my first mno and did not know what the big deal was with asking people in game for advice, and still do not.

I have no issues with people being new. I have no issues explaining the fight. what I have issues with is people harassing me over how I am explaining something in mid battle after I raised the new person like 3 times or so then telling me they are new and need advice.

Had pretty much the same experience when I first played this game... though with me I was a healer. Unfortunately, you just get people whom are impatient with new people... it left a everlasting scar on me, and nowadays I try to avoid dungeons as much as I can. If I'm required to do a dungeon, I try to bring in people I know whom I know will be patient with me if I mess up. You just have to surround yourself with friendly patient people when you're new. ( Or if you're terrible at the game like me...lol.)

I know the feeling.... my friend is like that and why she "mained" "crafting and gathering"

[ZioSerpe]

Not everyone has time to look up guides..

So you have 20 minutes or more to run a dungeon blind but you don't have time to watch a minute that is usually around 5 to 6 minutes and will make your dungeon run faster.
LOGIX