Got kicked from The Aetherochemical Research Facility by mentor

[bardaboo]

Snip

Hurray!! The other problem we face! A sjw to the rescue! Look. EVERYTHING I SAID WAS WRONG!!!
1. There are plenty of lvl 60 guides out there. But this issue is more along the lines of knowing job basics. Drgs that dont heavythrust. Bards that dont dot or straight shot. Blms that don't know how to astral fire umbral ice. Smns that don't dot, or bane. Monks that don't do positions. You shouldn't need a guide. Read your tool tips. Common sense. Ask an fc mate. Listen to people in dungeons. And really, if you cared about looking for info you don't need a pc or smartphone
2. I'm not rude if people listen. I'm not rude if people like you don't defend lazy people. I like helping.
3. My short fuse stems from dealing with lazy people and people like you who defend them.
4. At what point do we stop saying "oh he's new don't worry about it"? Again im not talking super optimization im talking job basics. Things that don't change at 60 at all. Things these people should know by ARF.
5. Now let's assume we can't help them if they don't ask. Now they're past ARF. are they smarter? No. Are they better? No. Do they now magically care? No. They are still lazy, and people like you help them continue on being lazy.
6. If a tank loaded into ARF in healing accesories and no tank stance. No aoe threat. Just spamming riot blade or fracture. "Um... would you like some tanking tips?" "No stfu i play how i want" or better yet no answer at all. If you wanna sit there and say you'd be ok with that uou are either a liar or the worst enabler ever.
7. Seriously. Ok. Seriously can we please stop defending the lazy people. Stop being ok carrying them.

also. Yeah it's an MMO. That goes both ways. Why would you be ok running a dungeon with someone who doesn't care how much extra time he is costing you? Would you like to be the person holding up the group? Would you be ok doing a school or work project with someone like that, someone who just doesn't care and expects to have everone else pick up his slack?

[Masekase_Hurricane]

look up what gaslighting is.

And only just recently started using reddit. My g/f isn't the /kick type, she thinks it is rude and a poor way to communicate.

Well then if she can't kick abusive people then she needs to grow a thicker skin. So back to the same thing as before, if she is using reddit why can't she look up guides etc? Next you will be telling me she comments on the forum :s
Why would you take a load of crap and let someone ruin it for you and the other members of the party. Sorry never heard of the term gaslighting but if that's what you think then ok :S

expect it isn't hard to tell them apart.

mentor crown with blade =combat.



so people who don't communicate get a free pass but don't google a dungeon and deserve a /kick?

sorry but no.

You would think but I have been in a duty as a craft mentor I made a silly error and died then got various messages like "Your a mentor and you died lol"

To which I replied "unless you can turn the mobs into tables let's continue".

So if the mentor doesn't google a dungeon they deserve a kick but if the other players are lazy and don't it's fine? It would be silly to expect someone to google a dungeon whilst in a dungeon. Although I personally would pull up the bosses of the dungeon on my laptop whilst playing on PC and explain them. But like you said not everyone can do that as they don't have access to browser whilst playing.

guides are out of date. or did you not get that memo?

Guides are not out of date, it's just some mechanics may be skipped due to players ilvl etc. The majority of a guide is still relevant try places like Gamer Escape that are regularly updated. I would also avoid reddit if you can't handle other people who over state their opinion.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Not to mention, pulling all to the door with a group without aoe, it is just putting unnecessary pressure on the healer and barring him to add to the dps because tank constantly hit by slow dying mobs.

I was under the impression that, by level cap, all jobs have respectable aoe...

[Callinon]

I was under the impression that, by level cap, all jobs have respectable aoe...

AoE yes.... respectable? ...... eh

Melee AoE, while extant, is still decidedly mediocre at level cap. Especially NIN. Sorry NIN.

[ZioSerpe]

I was under the impression that, by level cap, all jobs have respectable aoe...

Ninjas AoE is not respectable, and DRG AoE is barely ok if is for a short time, then you are out of TP and your invigorate is on CD

[RokkuEkkusu]

I'm sorry it happened to you. It is a very rare occasion, but good to see you got a great group in the end to clear ARF.

With that being said, the more I see players force the speed-run mentality on lesser-geared tanks, healers, and dps (especially first timers), the more I wish for dungeons like Hullbreaker Hard to be made with the huge walls and little amount of trash mobs with plenty of HP.

And I loathe Hullbreaker Hard because it's boring compared to most other level 60 dungeons (better than Alwaysreap, but it's not saying much).

[LalaRu]

Had to do that yesterday as tank, to help a fresh new 60 healer friend.
Did pulled just one group at time, dps at start where running ahead expecting hard pulls but they noticed the pace I'd wanted to set and adapted. After all trash there hits as trucks and bigger pulls I expect they will be just calls for wipes.

Even with newbie healer and only few hints to her, it ended up good just a couple minutes later than usual.

[BigRed5392]

Hurray!! The other problem we face! A sjw to the rescue! Look. EVERYTHING I SAID WAS WRONG!!!
1. There are plenty of lvl 60 guides out there. But this issue is more along the lines of knowing job basics. Drgs that dont heavythrust. Bards that dont dot or straight shot. Blms that don't know how to astral fire umbral ice. Smns that don't dot, or bane. Monks that don't do positions. You shouldn't need a guide. Read your tool tips. Common sense. Ask an fc mate. Listen to people in dungeons. And really, if you cared about looking for info you don't need a pc or smartphone
2. I'm not rude if people listen. I'm not rude if people like you don't defend lazy people. I like helping.
3. My short fuse stems from dealing with lazy people and people like you who defend them.
4. At what point do we stop saying "oh he's new don't worry about it"? Again im not talking super optimization im talking job basics. Things that don't change at 60 at all. Things these people should know by ARF.
5. Now let's assume we can't help them if they don't ask. Now they're past ARF. are they smarter? No. Are they better? No. Do they now magically care? No. They are still lazy, and people like you help them continue on being lazy.
6. If a tank loaded into ARF in healing accesories and no tank stance. No aoe threat. Just spamming riot blade or fracture. "Um... would you like some tanking tips?" "No stfu i play how i want" or better yet no answer at all. If you wanna sit there and say you'd be ok with that uou are either a liar or the worst enabler ever.
7. Seriously. Ok. Seriously can we please stop defending the lazy people. Stop being ok carrying them.

also. Yeah it's an MMO. That goes both ways. Why would you be ok running a dungeon with someone who doesn't care how much extra time he is costing you? Would you like to be the person holding up the group? Would you be ok doing a school or work project with someone like that, someone who just doesn't care and expects to have everone else pick up his slack?

except you're being part of the problem not the solution.

using strawman tactics, and semantics doesn't help your cause. Not everyone has time to look up guides.

Or has had the pleasure of meeting helpful people. The only lazy people i see are those not willing to work as a team, and give pointers politely and help out if nicely.

the second you do the "my time" thing, you lost the argument, as you are ruining someone else time as you claim they are ruining yours. Stop being selfish, and look at things from their perspective, not just your own. Be a team member and stop assuming everyone is lazy for arbitrary reasons.


It is rude to give advice forcefully, and extremely selfish to expect people to learn. You can't force people to learn, you can't force people to be helped. Forcing that advice is called patronizing. Stating that isn't me defending lazy, it is me pointing out how you are equally the problem. You don't help for sake of helping, you help for your own sake. To either a) look good. or B) to get "your" content done at "your" pace, regardless of the group.

Now if a tank shows up in healing gear (ok how? since healing gear is healer only) no tank stance and only spams 1 one button, I'd assume troll and but try to ask "hey you want any tips? or you just goofing off?" if they say a rude reply I will kick them. As it is a kick-able reason. but calling people lazy for not following your arbitrary criteria/ resume is rude, and kinda sad and to be frank selfish.

Each one of your points comes off as a selfish remark, again opinion.

Also people stop being "new" once they played the game for over a month, and have been in all content they want to partake in. You are not magically a vet @ 60. You
are not magically a vet when you get the highest ilevel or bis gear. As each doesn't take long or much to do for either.

my g/f has been playing ff14 on and off since 1.0 launch, had 17+ characters taking each to cap as each roll/job. She has been on every data center as well, looking for a good fc willing to help her out, and being supportive. Not everyone can deal with someone with ASD. But my g/f is far from lazy. She learns by doing, and is more then willing to ask questions.

But when you do ask questions, and all you get is insults or silence.. it makes it that much harder to do.

to be honest i never met lazy players... just toxic people like you and obvious trolls.

[BigRed5392]

Well then if she can't kick abusive people then she needs to grow a thicker skin. So back to the same thing as before, if she is using reddit why can't she look up guides etc? Next you will be telling me she comments on the forum :s
Why would you take a load of crap and let someone ruin it for you and the other members of the party. Sorry never heard of the term gaslighting but if that's what you think then ok :S

She has Autism spectrum disorder and atm due to moving to a new state, is not currently medicated. She has a thick skin from being a long time mmo player and kicks people as a last resort. Thing is though it wouldn't have gone through as the other dps was with said toxic member remember you need a 2 vote to kick, most would vote no.
Also gaslighting:
gas·light
ˈɡaslīt/
verb
gerund or present participle: gaslighting
manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.

which is something i have been seeing with this community. The pointing fingers and calling people lazy for something arbitrary, and nonsensical is gas lighting.

You would think but I have been in a duty as a craft mentor I made a silly error and died then got various messages like "Your a mentor and you died lol"

To which I replied "unless you can turn the mobs into tables let's continue".

So if the mentor doesn't google a dungeon they deserve a kick but if the other players are lazy and don't it's fine? It would be silly to expect someone to google a dungeon whilst in a dungeon. Although I personally would pull up the bosses of the dungeon on my laptop whilst playing on PC and explain them. But like you said not everyone can do that as they don't have access to browser whilst playing.

never said you had to, and you could have explain that you are not a combat mentor. But a crafting one. Personally no one should be kicked from any leveling dungeon unless they are cruel.

Guides are not out of date, it's just some mechanics may be skipped due to players ilvl etc. The majority of a guide is still relevant try places like Gamer Escape that are regularly updated. I would also avoid reddit if you can't handle other people who over state their opinion.

I can handle people who state their opinion, I have the right to contest that opinion as well pointing out the falsehoods of that opinion.

And mmo guides go out of date quickly as they are made at content launch. People will find and expect faster ways to do content after launch of it, as with being over geared. Take this thread for example, the guy was booted for not speed running a dungeon. This is not in the guide, yet is to be not expected. Gamer escape guides go out of date pretty fast, and rarely seen any updated. I did look, saw 1 gamer escape article about potd with out an accurate loot list as some links were missing.

MMo work best if you communicate, there are tons of guides for ff14 that contradict each other. Mrhappy even makes jokes about this in a recent pod cast about how cutthroat the ff14 community got.

Take a look at the skip soar mentality, it only took 30 min for this to start. day 1 and people were expected to skip a mechanic. He went on to day that people kick you for arbitrary reason such as : seeing a myhappy guide, not seeing a mrhappy guide. among other things

the ff14 community is not jointed at all. Too many groups use different tactics, and expect everyone to know them right off the bat. Everyone learns differently, my g/f doesn't read/watch guides for a few reasons. And none of which are lazy. First off she as i stated, had access to them. She did try to use the ps3/ps4 broswer and they do not load up very well.

As for watching youtube guides, the way her brain works (as she told me) Is all she sees is clutter she can't tell what is going on in the video. She even watched 2 mtq videos and was left confused, more then anything. She learns best by doing the content first hand, as she is very quick to react, and strategist. Something she got from playing Legend pf zelda on the nes at 3 years old.


As she told me: ff11 players had no issue explaining fights so everyone was on the same page. And that was a grinder game she told me. They would do practice runs, to see the abilities and learn to deal with them before doing the fight for real. And these same players had real lives, families full time jobs. Heck my g/f said she only played ff11 2 hours a day for a year when she started. Never had an issue getting content done, she said.

ff14 to her is extremely anti social, no one ask questions or try to plan stuff out to be on the same page. they expect to follow some guide that you need to go out of your way to find, which may not even be the guide people follow.

Like i stated, asking questions, no matter your personal opinion on how "dumb" it is should NEVER be discouraged. It takes a lot to ask a question in this community, and most of the time you are ignored. (personal experience, not stating as fact). to me ask questions isn't laziness, it shows a willingness to learn. Ignoring the question, or making jerk/lame reply calling them lazy, in reality being lazy.

Even a simply reply of "i'm sorry, i don't know. If you go to website x, if you have access to pc/smartphone, you might find out. good luck. "

And ya you will get the troll on occasion telling you to kys or stfu.. but don't paint everyone with a wide brush, just because a person had no access or could understand a guide, or had trouble making out the semi vague tool tip. Doesn't make them lazy, just makes it more apparent we all are different, think differently, and learn differently.

Some people can be masters just from a guide or video, while some need 1 to 1 player help with step by step explanations, while others still learn best by diving head first and pressing buttons.

You can only control you, remember that. I know the same goes for me and my g/f, I'm in no way nor have been defending anyone. I've just been saying my own opinion based on experience, and seeing my g/f struggle because of rude people.


anyway like i said, this just my opinion. have a good day.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Sorry long reply :S

She has Autism spectrum disorder and atm due to moving to a new state, is not currently medicated. She has a thick skin from being a long time mmo player and kicks people as a last resort. Thing is though it wouldn't have gone through as the other dps was with said toxic member remember you need a 2 vote to kick, most would vote no.

We are in a digital era text can be converted to voice and there is many other tools available to make this a little easier.

Also gaslighting:
gas·light
ˈɡaslīt/
verb
gerund or present participle: gaslighting
manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
which is something i have been seeing with this community. The pointing fingers and calling people lazy for something arbitrary, and nonsensical is gas lighting.

I had already looked it up just chose to put “lol” as if you really think that by helping someone with mechanics via macros is manipulating them then you really need help. Asking people to ask for information on mechanics prior to an instance is called being prepared and so is having information on hand to answer potential questions/provide strats.

And mmo guides go out of date quickly as they are made at content launch. People will find and expect faster ways to do content after launch of it, as with being over geared. Take this thread for example, the guy was booted for not speed running a dungeon. This is not in the guide, yet is to be not expected. Gamer escape guides go out of date pretty fast, and rarely seen any updated. I did look, saw 1 gamer escape article about potd with out an accurate loot list as some links were missing.

You are right most guides won’t say about speed running dungeons. Yet prior to 60 she would of seen this is the norm and expected from players. Players do not mind people who try, but pulling 3 mobs continuous through a dungeon is not trying. Gradually increasing size throughout the dungeon is trying, it also teaches the tank about taking high amounts of damage, using cooldowns at the best time, understanding the roles of healer and dps and what they can withstand.

the ff14 community is not jointed at all. Too many groups use different tactics, and expect everyone to know them right off the bat. Everyone learns differently, my g/f doesn't read/watch guides for a few reasons. And none of which are lazy. First off she as i stated, had access to them. She did try to use the ps3/ps4 broswer and they do not load up very well.
As for watching youtube guides, the way her brain works (as she told me) Is all she sees is clutter she can't tell what is going on in the video. She even watched 2 mtq videos and was left confused, more then anything. She learns best by doing the content first hand, as she is very quick to react, and strategist. Something she got from playing Legend pf zelda on the nes at 3 years old.

As I have pointed out in other replys/comments, I would not expect players to read a guide prior to their first time in a dungeon. Although I would expect them to look up any mechanics they do not understand later on. i.e. what did that red eye do or what was that circle with the inward pointing arrows. Not all guides are video guides. Yes I don’t look up any guides prior to a fight I run with friends and we explain mechanics/figure them out over discord.

Although now I have some understanding of the fight (yes I am a kinaesthetic type of learner) I will take that away and go look up any parts that I didn’t understand/ask friends/fc etc. I will again do this before we enter the fight not during. As I wouldn’t expect people to go over the same things the following day/week etc.

As she told me: ff11 players had no issue explaining fights so everyone was on the same page. And that was a grinder game she told me. They would do practice runs, to see the abilities and learn to deal with them before doing the fight for real. And these same players had real lives, families full time jobs. Heck my g/f said she only played ff11 2 hours a day for a year when she started. Never had an issue getting content done, she said.

Actually this is not true I too played FFXI and players were told to look up guides on Allakhzam, FFxiclopedia, FFXIAH and bluegartr.

ff14 to her is extremely anti social, no one ask questions or try to plan stuff out to be on the same page. they expect to follow some guide that you need to go out of your way to find, which may not even be the guide people follow.

I agree to an extent FFXIV is antisocial but it is also becoming a place where people want everyone else doing stuff for them. You say no one plans stuff out, yet when I mentioned having planned macros/guides on the fly you try to insult me.

Like i stated, asking questions, no matter your personal opinion on how "dumb" it is should NEVER be discouraged. It takes a lot to ask a question in this community, and most of the time you are ignored. (personal experience, not stating as fact). to me ask questions isn't laziness, it shows a willingness to learn. Ignoring the question, or making jerk/lame reply calling them lazy, in reality being lazy.

You are correct questions should not be discouraged but there is a time and place. I.e where do I get my job crystal from in the middle of Sastasha (hard). This type of question should not be asked in the middle of a 50 dungeon yet I have seen it.

Even a simply reply of "i'm sorry, i don't know. If you go to website x, if you have access to pc/smartphone, you might find out. good luck. "
And ya you will get the troll on occasion telling you to kys or stfu.. but don't paint everyone with a wide brush, just because a person had no access or could understand a guide, or had trouble making out the semi vague tool tip. Doesn't make them lazy, just makes it more apparent we all are different, think differently, and learn differently.

If this person can’t read a written guide, tooltip, a more explained version of a tooltip on a website. Then what’s the point in me explaining the dungeon when it would be ignored. My explanation would also be weaker as I am cutting it down to very brief instructions to not hold up the rest of the group.
Again this is for after your first attempt in a dungeon. Hell if I got kicked from a dungeon I would ask a friend to run with me and point out what I am doing wrong, not bury my head in the sand.

Also you keep saying they have no access to websites, but so far we have found out they can access reddit, forum and attempted to watch visual guides.

Some people can be masters just from a guide or video, while some need 1 to 1 player help with step by step explanations, while others still learn best by diving head first and pressing buttons.
You can only control you, remember that. I know the same goes for me and my g/f, I'm in no way nor have been defending anyone. I've just been saying my own opinion based on experience, and seeing my g/f struggle because of rude people.

you can't help someone who wont help themselves