Got kicked from The Aetherochemical Research Facility by mentor

[Mature]

There's no excuse for what that "Mentor" did.

That person should be banned for a month cause this kind of deluded attitude should NOT be tolerated.

[BigRed5392]

Sorry long reply :S

We are in a digital era text can be converted to voice and there is many other tools available to make this a little easier.



I had already looked it up just chose to put “lol” as if you really think that by helping someone with mechanics via macros is manipulating them then you really need help. Asking people to ask for information on mechanics prior to an instance is called being prepared and so is having information on hand to answer potential questions/provide strats.



You are right most guides won’t say about speed running dungeons. Yet prior to 60 she would of seen this is the norm and expected from players. Players do not mind people who try, but pulling 3 mobs continuous through a dungeon is not trying. Gradually increasing size throughout the dungeon is trying, it also teaches the tank about taking high amounts of damage, using cooldowns at the best time, understanding the roles of healer and dps and what they can withstand.



As I have pointed out in other replys/comments, I would not expect players to read a guide prior to their first time in a dungeon. Although I would expect them to look up any mechanics they do not understand later on. i.e. what did that red eye do or what was that circle with the inward pointing arrows. Not all guides are video guides. Yes I don’t look up any guides prior to a fight I run with friends and we explain mechanics/figure them out over discord.

Although now I have some understanding of the fight (yes I am a kinaesthetic type of learner) I will take that away and go look up any parts that I didn’t understand/ask friends/fc etc. I will again do this before we enter the fight not during. As I wouldn’t expect people to go over the same things the following day/week etc.



Actually this is not true I too played FFXI and players were told to look up guides on Allakhzam, FFxiclopedia, FFXIAH and bluegartr.



I agree to an extent FFXIV is antisocial but it is also becoming a place where people want everyone else doing stuff for them. You say no one plans stuff out, yet when I mentioned having planned macros/guides on the fly you try to insult me.



You are correct questions should not be discouraged but there is a time and place. I.e where do I get my job crystal from in the middle of Sastasha (hard). This type of question should not be asked in the middle of a 50 dungeon yet I have seen it.



If this person can’t read a written guide, tooltip, a more explained version of a tooltip on a website. Then what’s the point in me explaining the dungeon when it would be ignored. My explanation would also be weaker as I am cutting it down to very brief instructions to not hold up the rest of the group.
Again this is for after your first attempt in a dungeon. Hell if I got kicked from a dungeon I would ask a friend to run with me and point out what I am doing wrong, not bury my head in the sand.

Also you keep saying they have no access to websites, but so far we have found out they can access reddit, forum and attempted to watch visual guides.

hey dude, no question no mater your personal hang up or opinion should be discouraged. ever.

the ff11 bit, my gf stated her server wasn't like that till abyssea.. she quit then. All content she was in, the group leader would explain the "what do" so everyone was on the same page, which should be well a thing, as communication should be encouraged.

I highly suggest you really look into gaslight as this hole post is very much that. calling people lazy for arbitrary things is the basic concept of what gaslighting is.

You put to question people mental state, and i saw this happen with my g/f. Ever since she started tanking a few runs question her skill level as people would treat her like crap. One person back in 2.3 era actually insulted her personally for being new tank to amdapor keep while working on her relic. This encounter made her feel like she was the worst tank ever. She was on the ps3 at this time.


I also never insulted you over macros. those are a good idea. I'm just pointing out the pointless arbitrary rules you, and people like you make up on the fly, and expect people to read your mind and know the rules.

Not everyone speed runs dungeons. Not everyone is geared to speed run dungeons right out the gate.


anyway i hope you read this in really and not just reply with broken record remarks. feel free to ask questions instead of assuming. as you are assuming a lot, and not reading/listening at all.


ps look up what or ask about ASD is before commenting, you said something kinda ignorant. as text to voice programs do nothing for her. In fact her issues are high anxiety, temprate sensitivities, low hand eye coordination, and acute audio sensory sensitivity (some sound volumes and frequency cause her pain) And a low physical pain tolerance which makes the sound thing much harder on her.


I really wish people like you would wake up to reality and realize people from all walks of life play this. And that with every group comes new made up rules, that contradict past groups.

some want speed runs, some don't.

some want healers to dps, some don't.

some want to follow x guide, while some follow z guide.

unless you communicate, no one will know which made up rules or strat to follow.

in fact my g/f tried stance dancing as a tank in the aery, as enmity wasn't an issue. The healer at the end told her it was bad to do that because of mp cost of grit.

Like i said mrhappy explains this better in a podcast from a few weeks ago, suggest looking into it, if you want/have the time.


i gotta ask though, what do you suggest people do if they work 2 jobs 4-7 days a week with no day off, from both and have maybe an hr or 2 in-between jobs to play?
And can't get online during said work hours? Does their time not matter? Sorry but for some that little time they have, they want to spend on the game. Not on the internet about the game.

And no she (my gf) doesn't access these forums. And again only recently started to get on reddit, and youtube. Only to be severally confused by contradictions, and clutter mess of youtube videos. (her words not mine) from 2.0-3.3 she was on the ps3. and had no access to the internet outside the crappy browser on ps3 which sucked.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I'm sorry but I think your g/f memory is faded Allakhazam,FFXIAH and FFXICLOPEDIA were available at the latest COP expansion, but I am sure it was earlier. As for Bluegatr I am not 100% sure if it was before or after COP but I know for certain it wasn't Abyssea.

You keep telling me to look up the word gaslighting which you have said "due to calling these types of players lazy". Yet are you not doing the same by calling mentors lazy for not explaining every single thing in the game to your gf/other players?

Just because you may or may not have used the word lazy, you have basically implied it multiple times. Also if going to ask me to look up a word. Please do the same yourself and correct the multiple words you have used wrong i.e whole and hole.

Actually people have been speed running dungeons from the very beginning i.e Wanderer's Palace. This was done with bare minimum ilvl it has also been done numerous times with each new dungon from a patch update. With people all at the minimum ilvl a mixture or all over it.


And no she (my gf) doesn't access these forums. And again only recently started to get on reddit, and youtube. Only to be severally confused by contradictions, and clutter mess of youtube videos. (her words not mine) from 2.0-3.3 she was on the ps3. and had no access to the internet outside the crappy browser on ps3 which sucked.

in fact my g/f tried stance dancing as a tank in the aery, as enmity wasn't an issue. The healer at the end told her it was bad to do that because of mp cost of grit

And no she (my gf) doesn't access these forums.

Sorry I must of been mistaken I thought I seen a post a while back with you and your G/f commenting on Autism and how you posted because her post count was maxed. Maybe I misread the posts.

ps look up what or ask about ASD is before commenting, you said something kinda ignorant. as text to voice programs do nothing for her. In fact her issues are high anxiety, temprate sensitivities, low hand eye coordination, and acute audio sensory sensitivity (some sound volumes and frequency cause her pain) And a low physical pain tolerance which makes the sound thing much harder on her.

Actually I think you are being very ignorant, there are many different degrees of ASD. I gave one example when there are many more tools available to help people i.e products from Dynavox. You can't just say she has ASD and expect people to know what degree of ASD she has. So maybe next time you want to throw in someones condition, start by giving some actual information as to why it's not possible instead of letting people second guess.

i gotta ask though, what do you suggest people do if they work 2 jobs 4-7 days a week with no day off, from both and have maybe an hr or 2 in-between jobs to play?
And can't get online during said work hours? Does their time not matter? Sorry but for some that little time they have, they want to spend on the game. Not on the internet about the game.

Yet a mentor who does the same must provide you with all information and refresh their information by doing research. Many players who play FFXIV do exactly what you described yet still manage it.

but I think you should take a step back and actually read what is being written, instead of skimming it and come up with false assumptions.

Please do the same :S

[BigRed5392]

I'm sorry but I think your g/f memory is faded Allakhazam,FFXIAH and FFXICLOPEDIA were available at the latest COP expansion, but I am sure it was earlier. As for Bluegatr I am not 100% sure if it was before or after COP but I know for certain it wasn't Abyssea.

You keep telling me to look up the word gaslighting which you have said "due to calling these types of players lazy". Yet are you not doing the same by calling mentors lazy for not explaining every single thing in the game to your gf/other players?

Just because you may or may not have used the word lazy, you have basically implied it multiple times. Also if going to ask me to look up a word. Please do the same yourself and correct the multiple words you have used wrong i.e whole and hole.

Actually people have been speed running dungeons from the very beginning i.e Wanderer's Palace. This was done with bare minimum ilvl it is also been done numerous times with each patch update. With people all at the minimum ilvl a mixture or all over it.

she is reading your post. and states

1) her server was different, it was garuda/lakshmi not one time was she told to look up anything. People would explain content from the get go.

2) she did dynamis during cop, every time she went in with her LS they explained the content. She was a lvl 70 rdm at the time. She never got into sky, sea, nyzul isle.


I never stated mentors need to do anything, I never specified mentors. I simply stated 1) no question should be discouraged, and 2) be willing to communicate. i said this for all players, as in ask questions, and reply questions. Make sure everyone is on the same page, communication is part of playing mmo.

I never called anyone lazy, i'm just pointing out the "pot kettle black" scenario, and how confusing and contradicting things can really be. Also i never implied anything, just asking for better communication and less insults using gaslighting tatics.


@ WP I started ff14 @ 2.3, Wp was considered "old content" and from what me g/f stated when 2.1-2.2 she was living with an abusive (ex) boyfriend who didn't let her play ff14.

but as i recall my times there, you can do that dungeon with out speed running. again "some do some don't" Painting everyone with a wide brush of assumption is pretty bad.

pretty much this is exactly what i'm stating:

calling people lazy is gaslighting, as no matter how hard a person is trying... how much effort they tried/trying to learn/understand the game being called lazy will make them question themselves, in negative ways.

calling someone lazy is an insult, more so for arbitrary rules not everyone follows, or contradicts. Also whole/hole are typos. My bad on that.

but hey keep on gaslighting. I agree with some stuff, but not everything. but I think you should take a step back and actually read what is being written, instead of skimming it and come up with false assumptions.

you are free to ask questions anytime, btw if I wrote something confusing. I am up late from working my 2 jobs.. and a bit tired.

[Claymore65]

One of the major problems with any social interaction is differing standards, which is well established by this very thread.

For example, some players expect absolutely perfect rotations, while others are fine as long as they aren't doing anything absolutely inane (such as the near-mythical "ice mages" or auto-attackers). Some don't mind if the player has some sub-par accessories or cross-class choices, while for others it's kick-worthy. Some players get frustrated when the Tank doesn't pull everything, others don't mind it, especially if it's their first time running the dungeon. Let's not even get started on subjects like Healer DPS or dropping Tank stance. Every player has a different standard, and unfortunately these conflict frustratingly often. Sometimes that means things won't work out, so you just can't let it get to you. If you get kicked, it's best to just sigh and queue again. To be honest, I have had very few bad experiences in DF, most people are accommodating to reasonable requests. One good tip for newbie tanks is to mention you're new at the start, and ask if it's okay to take it slow. Most people are totally cool with that, especially if you start the conversation politely. Flatly saying "I'm not pulling large" is only going to cause conflicts, while a polite "Hello, this is my first time tanking this dungeon. Would you mind if I take it slow?" will usually get a good response. At the very least I've never had that problem, although I do normally queue with a healer buddy of mine.

Sadly, these different expectations equally apply to Mentors. I'm of the (personal) opinion that if you choose to act a mentor, you should be a bit more lenient in your expectations, and offer advice instead of derision. You've made the active choice to say "I'm willing to mentor newer players", so you should probably be a bit more friendly about it. That said, there's nothing forcing you to give advice, especially if it's unsolicited. One good tip as a mentor is to ask if they'd like some advice. Many new players are very friendly and receptive to feedback, although unsolicited or poorly worded advice can come off as rude when you were trying to be helpful. One tip is to word it as a "suggestion" rather than a command. Saying "Use Darkside" comes off as more rude than "Hey, you should consider trying to keep Darkside up. It adds a lot of damage and allows you to use some really sweet abilities!" If you understand the class well, try and explain why they should use certain ability they're avoiding. Try to remain polite if possible, and if the person isn't going to listen...just drop the subject for now. It's not worth arguing over the entire dungeon about it. Just suck it up, complain in FC chat, and move on with your life.

Aetherochemical Research Facility is especially kind of a mixed bag in this regard. Here, we have players trying to complete their Relics mixed with fresh-60s running their first level 60 Dungeon. ARF is (unfortunately?) the best source of uncapped Tome-stones in addition to a major story dungeon and the first "true" level 60 dungeon. Players running ARF for the first time will likely not be used to the End-game meta (such as Large pulls), have lesser gear, and will be less experienced with their level 60 rotation, especially if it changes a good deal (such as Black Mages). Unfortunately, these new players are often paired with players trying to speed-run it for Lore tomestones, so expectations clash really quickly. If you ever see the "New Player bonus", try and be a bit more patient and understanding. Besides, you'll get some extra tomes for your trouble!

[Venoshock]

snip

lol this post is just....after reading it I wanted to smash my face into a glass spike.

first of all,i don't get what point you're trying to make here with 'The only lazy people i see are those not willing to work as a team, and give pointers politely and help out if nicely.'.

bardaboo (lol nice name) insinuated that she has offered advice before if you bothered to read point #2 that she made and is usually met with responses mentioned in#6.
I'd consider myself lazy and ignorant if i went into something willfully half-assing my job and expecting a carry in level 60 content and don't bring up the 'they might not have a computer or smartphone' argument, that's just as lame as your entire lazy-player-apologist post. If they really cared, they would of did what i did when i was a sprout and actively (the opposite of lazy) seek guidance from other players.


'the second you do the "my time" thing, you lost the argument, as you are ruining someone else time as you claim they are ruining yours. Stop being selfish, and look at things from their perspective, not just your own. Be a team member and stop assuming everyone is lazy for arbitrary reasons.'

So ok, if someone is willfuly ruining my time, I'm supposed to be ok with it? I can't speak up or I'm labeled as a selfish player? Are they seeing things from my perspective by not even trying at all? Why is it that i'm selfish in this situation and they aren't? I took the time to learn my job as i was leveling up by asking questions and doing basic reading of the tool tips to make everyone in my parties time easier, they didn't, but i'm somehow selfish, right.

'It is rude to give advice forcefully, and extremely selfish to expect people to learn. You can't force people to learn, you can't force people to be helped. Forcing that advice is called patronizing. Stating that isn't me defending lazy, it is me pointing out how you are equally the problem. You don't help for sake of helping, you help for your own sake. To either a) look good. or B) to get "your" content done at "your" pace, regardless of the group.'

Lol dude, stop throwing the word selfish around because you're using it wrong. It is not selfish to expect people to learn when been taught. It's 100% reasonable to expect people to learn when being taught lol. Your mum sent you to school to learn, That's what she expects, now you come home with terrible grades and she's shocked, what is she selfish then? no. She isn't. Same principle applies here. Your whole argument is defending level 60 players who don't care to learn - basically defending lazy people.

Oh and tanks can wear healer and dps gear. Mind, dex, int and strength accessories can be worn by any class but is usually considered non-tank gear. Come on bro you should know this by now you're level 60!

It's people like you who've made the game what it is. Defending lazy people instead of encouraging them to get better has in turn made content so faceroll easy and anything that poses a slight challenge gives this low-skilled playerbase heart failure. And don't give me that not everyone has access to a phone and computer garbage. In my old FC we had someone who is partially blind, and a girl who has a serious illness which limits her time to play yet they still give it their all and out-dps most of these lazy able-bodied players in df. Stop settling with mediocrity.

[Ama_Hamada]

Masekase_Hurricane...
those guides where out for early FFXI, but the thing is, that is not what BigRed5392 is saying. People rarely, rarely did the "look up x on y site" till very late in the game of life even past Abyssea. The thing is, you need to learn when not to judge people. Some people did do that, but it was often seen as rude and it was not hard to find elsewhere.

People should not be required to look up "guides" that means the game fails at explaining it self (unless you are talking about endgame raids, that is the point of them, trying to figure them out on your own) For the lighter raids people can explain them.

WHAT IS EXPECTED! and should be understood is, if you are new at something and feel you need tips, you better damn well say so at the start before the first pull. I was harassed by a new person before as I was attempting to heal + lightly heal carry + explain the fight to this PLD. He was harassing me as I did my best to explain it, often in broken sentences because I had to move and heal. The party was kind enough to kick him for it though.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

@Venoshock

You can't call people lazy :S

Masekase_Hurricane...
those guides where out for early FFXI, but the thing is, that is not what BigRed5392 is saying. People rarely, rarely did the "look up x on y site" till very late in the game of life even past Abyssea. The thing is, you need to learn when not to judge people. Some people did do that, but it was often seen as rude and it was not hard to find elsewhere.

People should not be required to look up "guides" that means the game fails at explaining it self (unless you are talking about endgame raids, that is the point of them, trying to figure them out on your own) For the lighter raids people can explain them.

WHAT IS EXPECTED! and should be understood is, if you are new at something and feel you need tips, you better damn well say so at the start before the first pull. I was harassed by a new person before as I was attempting to heal + lightly heal carry + explain the fight to this PLD. He was harassing me as I did my best to explain it, often in broken sentences because I had to move and heal. The party was kind enough to kick him for it though.

Well I must of been an exception to the rule then. Cause I looked up every guide available to catch up when I joined around COP release. LOL I even bought the old trusty brady guide :S

Like I have pointed out numerous times I wouldn't expect anyone to read a guide for the first time entering a dungeon/trial or instance and that's including endgame i.e savage. I would expect them to ask after the run about any mechanics be it a story dungeon,instance or raid that they still do not understand prior to stepping into it again. If they can't ask anyone, as they are not available then do some research for yourself before going back into the dungeon,trial,instance or raid.

What would you suggest i do?

Ok will say it again, ask friends, ask in Fc, ask in novice before repeating a dungeon,trial or instance you are not sure about.

[BigRed5392]

Masekase_Hurricane

i never said that. And I know about ASD, I never expected you to know, but the hearing thing is comment across the spectrum.

I do read everything... you are not I can tell as you are replying with assumptions to what you THINK i'm saying vs what i really am saying.

Not one time did i ever say "mentor have to do xyz" I also said some, not all. And i was asking a question, it wasn't rhetorical. I am in that boat, i work 7-3/4pm at a grocery store. Then 4/5-10 i work at little Caesers. i rarely (never) get a day off from both jobs. I barely log on ff14 atm, and i personally can't look up guides, or youtube videos currently. What would you suggest i do?

that was a legitimate question since the "my time vs your time" was brought up.

to add:
my g/f says she started ff11 @ NA ps2 launch. No one asked you to look up guides, party leaders were expected to lead. It was around treasures that started a decline in the community, mostly from WoW players. People going out of their way to mock a person. It wasn't until abyssea that the parser, ventrillo required, guide reading is a must started. She quiet the game by then.

[Pakonitan]

Had pretty much the same experience when I first played this game... though with me I was a healer. Unfortunately, you just get people whom are impatient with new people... it left a everlasting scar on me, and nowadays I try to avoid dungeons as much as I can. If I'm required to do a dungeon, I try to bring in people I know whom I know will be patient with me if I mess up. You just have to surround yourself with friendly patient people when you're new. ( Or if you're terrible at the game like me...lol.)