Stop Giving the "Need" Command for Drop Gear in Dungeons to Higher Geared Players!

[Cordie]

[...]

Heard that before, but:
(a) no mention of the algorithm or even an expected bias
(b) accounting for algorithm failures (not enough people queueing, or high-load)
(c) 2 out of 7 queues (as predicted) with another BLM or SMN in a light party seems pretty close to reality in my experience (and I can't trust it is "significantly lower" without an adequate sample number and distance)


I wouldn't add an arbitrary weight there.

My "need" suggestion actually covers everyone: people who want more seals/desynths can roll on more loot with better odds, people who need items for glamours/gearing have more chances of getting them even if they're for another class, and if there is the need to adjust who gets what they can still communicate with the party as others suggested.
The chances of getting an item for gearing/glam, with 5 or 7 categories of items in the mix, are already worse than getting the highest roll out of 4 ppl.

[Altena]

My "need" suggestion actually covers everyone: people who want more seals/desynths can roll on more loot with better odds, people who need items for glamours/gearing have more chances of getting them even if they're for another class, and if there is the need to adjust who gets what they can still communicate with the party as others suggested.
The chances of getting an item for gearing/glam, with 5 or 7 categories of items in the mix, are already worse than getting the highest roll out of 4 ppl.

Eh? That makes 0 sense..

Newbie Tank, who only has a Tank (no other class to gear as they are a newbie) runs through a dungeon and the Tank body drops.
How does it benefit the newbie that is trying to gear if everyone can roll on it?

That is the whole point this thread was created. A player was complaining about high geared people getting gear that the newbie needs for upgrades.
A lot of people are saying that if they need gear for a certain class then they should play that class for the content so they can get loot priority.
At least with the current system, you can have priority on a certain class by playing that class.

Your "suggestion" effectively eliminates that option. The only people it benefits are those that are going for seals. You turn a forced greed system into a "greed in good faith" system in which case I don't trust the community for that. Do you?

The current system is fine. Eliminating the class-based Need / Greed system gives too much advantage to those that don't care what piece of gear it is because it will just be converted into seals.

[Cordie]

[...]

If anything, my proposal will change a "forced-greed" system into a "forced-need", and I see nothing wrong if it takes good faith to adjust everyone's priorities on a case-by-case basis -still have party chat for that.

As for the newbie's need for gear there is nothing special about it:

I need GC seals, and I need desynth levels.
Therefore I need the gear just as much as you do.

[Altena]

If anything, my proposal will change a "forced-greed" system into a "forced-need", and I see nothing wrong if it takes good faith to adjust everyone's priorities on a case-by-case basis -still have party chat for that.

As for the newbie's need for gear there is nothing special about it:

Not sure why you bothered quoting my other post because it doesn't help your "point".

I am perfectly fine with a newbie rolling NEED on items for gear and having loot priority.
Just like I will roll NEED on items that are specific to my class - I will play a class that gives me a higher chance of giving me the correct gear that levels my desynths.

If I want seals, I don't need loot priority as any piece of gear will suffice. I am happy to Greed with the rest of my party members.
If I want desynth, I will choose a class that gives me priority over that crafting class.
If I need to upgrade my gear, I will play the class that needs that gear.

The current system is fine. Your "suggestion" is horrible as it only benefits those that don't give a damn what they get.

[Cordie]

Not sure why you bothered quoting my other post because it doesn't help your "point".

I am perfectly fine with a newbie rolling NEED on items for gear and having loot priority.
Just like I will roll NEED on items that are specific to my class

You are (and should be) valuing both cases the same, in which case my suggestion is viable and fair.

The current system is fine. Your "suggestion" is horrible as it only benefits those that don't give a damn what they get.

Current system is quite a bit off.
My suggestion benefits those who need pieces for gearing other classes, glamours, as well as what you mention (seals/desynth) -we could even move desynth into a seperate category according to what you mention.
It's not ok to put the needs of 1 group above 2 (or 3) others.

[Underdog2204]

Current system is quite a bit off.My suggestion benefits those who need pieces for gearing other classes, glamours, as well as what you mention (seals/desynth) -we could even move desynth into a seperate category according to what you mention.
It's not ok to put the needs of 1 group above 2 (or 3) others.

Instead of leveling the class and playing it to get the gear? Then they don't really need it huh....

Lets just face it, you're solution is desinged to punish new players and help get gear for classes they may not ever play instead - Newbie tank - "Ohh I really could do with that new chest... Damn the BRD got it and I got BLM gloves... I don't like magic users so thanks for nothing I guess..."

Instead of you know playing the class and gearing it at the same time >.>

Making the "need" button available to everyone irrespective of job/class/role, as I suggested, does not exclude any job/class/role.

Gear for classes they may play is not magically excluded if everyone can roll "need".

So you want everyone to be holding onto lvl30 gear just incase they may just play it in the future and they cannot guarantee getting it again? Yeah genious suggestion...

Need atm doesn't exclude any job/class/role, you just have to be playing it... Such a hard concept for you to understand...

[Cordie]

Instead of leveling the class and playing it to get the gear? Then they don't really need it huh....

Making the "need" button available to everyone irrespective of job/class/role, as I suggested, does not exclude any job/class/role.

Lets just face it, you're solution is desinged to punish new players and help get gear for classes they may not ever play instead

Gear for classes they may play is not magically excluded if everyone can roll "need".

[Altena]

You are (and should be) valuing both cases the same, in which case my suggestion is viable and fair.

I am. But no it does not. It allows specific targetting of loot for players that do need it for specific purposes. Repeating myself again *sigh*.

Want that Tank glamour? Then play tank.
Need that Tank body piece for gear? Then play tank.
Need Armorer desynth? Then play tank.
Need seals? Then play any thing and you can still NEED on items that drop exclusive to you.

Even your own math shows that the chance of obtaining a piece of gear relevant to the class you're playing is fairly evenly matched across the board.

Not sure if you agree here, but a difference of 1-5% chance is pretty insignificant.

Current system is quite a bit off.
My suggestion benefits those who need pieces for gearing other classes, glamours, as well as what you mention (seals/desynth) -we could even move desynth into a seperate category according to what you mention.
It's not ok to put the needs of 1 group above 2 (or 3) others.

You have it backwards. It only benefits people who need to gear other classes, and those who want seals.
Furthermore you could argue that it actually penalizes seal seekers as well - as they no longer have any priority so they have a higher chance of walking out with nothing.
- It flat out penalizes those that need gear for desynth - as it abolishes the ability to target specific gear (such as levelling Armorer desynth on Tank).
- It massively penalizes those that need stuff for glamour - as those that are hunting glamour are targetting a specific piece. Why would you go on anything but the class you want the glamour for if that was your main reason for doing the dungeon.
- Finally, that newbie Tank that is trying to level up their first job? Yeah they can forget about gear..

You are putting words in my mouth....

It's perfectly ok to have a loot priority that allows absolutely everyone to TARGET specific things that they actually really need. Especially when the chance of obtaining said item is practically the same across all roles.
It is NOT ok to specifically expect others to pass on things just because someone else "Needs" it. As everyone "Needs" loot. However removing the ability to target specific things just penalizes nearly everyone involved, and means that more people will end up with stuff they don't need, and not get the stuff that they do.

Making the "need" button available to everyone irrespective of job/class/role, as I suggested, does not exclude any job/class/role.

But it does. Because that Tank can no longer prioritize their Tank gear. Now that tank piece that they had a 100% chance of winning if it dropped, suddenly drops to 25% - and that is 25% of the whatever % chance that the piece dropped in the first place..

I mean with all your math brains I am surprised you haven't figured this one out..

You say there is like a rough 15% chance to see the piece you need.
With everyone able to suddenly NEED on that piece, you drop your odds of obtaining that piece down to less than 5% chance of getting it.
Really scary when you look at it.

Gear for classes they may play is not magically excluded if everyone can roll "need".

If they need gear for a specific class, targeted loot is more beneficial in the current system. There is literally no argument here.

Again I repeat...

That chest piece (or pants) that has what.. 15% chance to drop to begin with, suddenly becomes sub-5% chance to obtain...

Just play the class you so desperately need that gear for. If you're unwilling to play that class, then no - you don't need that specific piece for gear (because you obviously aren't willing to play it), and you can simply roll with the rest of the party already.

[Cordie]

It allows specific targetting of loot for players that do need it for specific purposes.

It allows the exact same targeting of loot to players that need it for any/all reasons. This is exactly what “non-specific” is.

Not sure if you agree here, but a difference of 1-5% chance is pretty insignificant.

Not when the maximum is 20%. A 4% difference makes for 20% of that range. I wouldn’t call it “insignificant”.

You have it backwards. …

My suggestion benefits people who need gear for any reason, really.
You can still target specific gear if everyone can roll “need” on it. You can target all gear, as a matter of fact. It’s a win-win.



Update:
So it's perfectly fine to ask other people to greed/pass in the current scheme, but it's not in the one I propose?

If you think your chances of geting some piece are too low, then I guess the "Poor you. Run the dungeon again." mentality expressed by some here fits your case very well. (Ask ppl who farm for ponies/chickens about it).

I only have 1 suggestion, bardaboo, and I am asked to explain over and over that it is fair to everyone.