Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[Feyona]

I have literally used the example of a BRD refusing to sing in comparison to a healer who refuses to DPS in this very thread. For example here:



If a BRD player was to start a thread on DPS forums about how they shouldn't be required to sing, I can promise the reactions to that would be exactly the same than they are in this thread towards healers who refuse to DPS.

The main difference between the two is that somehow some people are actively defending a healer who argues refusing to DPS should be considered a valid play style (within the current meta), while you're very unlikely to find anyone to defend a BRD who refuses to sing. I've said it before:

You cant compare a bard to a healer though because bard is dps and stays dps to sing. A better example would be an ast not using cards. Dps is a different role to healer it isnt one role, and the difference to me is like the difference between choosing a dps class to play or a healer. Dps IS a different playstyle, and would like that choice back. That was orinally intended in the design of the game. And I dont care if some want to dps or not but would like it optional

[Taika]

You cant compare a bard to a healer though because bard is dps and stays dps to sing. A better example would be an ast not using cards. Dps is a different role to healer it isnt one role

It's funny how you're always trying to define things based on an argument you're trying to make, with no consistency whatsoever. Please explain how singing is doing DPS and not playing a support - especially as singing certain songs literally lowers the BRD's DPS. Is it just because there's no special icon colour for support job in this game and thus a BRD stays as your definition of a DPS while singing, while a healer doesn't stay as a healer while doing DPS?

I define the roles because I think people would like to choose a particular role to play. As Ive said before some hate dps and some hate healing. Scholar is a healer role there is no special icon because, it isnt necessarily a support same as all the other dps that have support capacity, it doesnt mean their role is support. Scholar can heal as well as any other healer

I see you completely missed all my points, either intentionally or unintentionally. A BRD chooses to play a DPS, by your definition, so why should they, following your argument, be required to play "support role" (= sing)? Or why is not singing as BRD considered changing roles (from DPS to support) like DPSing as a healer is changing roles (from healer to DPS) in your logic? Why are you holding different standards for different jobs? Also this had nothing to do with SCH so I don't know why you brought that one up.

As stated before cleric exists to remind you that you are going into a different role or all classes are hybrids and intended to be. This is not the case you are a healer in one stance and a dps in the other . Bard doesnt have to become a different role it is intended as part of the DPS role. You can support with different classes it doesnt mean your changing role 'support' is not changing role. Or ast woul be termed just a support

So what you're claiming is, you're "changing roles" by clicking a button, and since a BRD doesn't have to click a button to sing, they're not changing roles. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Feyona]

It's funny how you're always trying to define things based on an argument you're trying to make, with no consistency whatsoever. Please explain how singing is doing DPS and not playing a support - especially as singing certain songs literally lowers the BRD's DPS. Is it just because there's no special icon colour for support job in this game and thus a BRD stays as your definition of a DPS while singing, while a healer doesn't stay as a healer while doing DPS?

I define the roles because I think people would like to choose a particular role to play. As Ive said before some hate dps and some hate healing. Scholar is a healer role there is no special icon because, it isnt necessarily a support same as all the other dps that have support capacity, it doesnt mean their role is support. Scholar can heal as well as any other healer

[Feyona]

It's funny how you're always trying to define things based on an argument you're trying to make, with no consistency whatsoever.


I see you completely missed all my points, either intentionally or unintentionally. A BRD chooses to play a DPS, by your definition, so why should they, following your argument, be required to play "support role" (= sing)? Or why is not singing as BRD considered changing roles (from DPS to support) like DPSing as a healer is changing roles (from healer to DPS) in your logic?

As stated before cleric exists to remind you that you are going into a different role or all classes are hybrids and intended to be. This is not the case you are a healer in one stance and a dps in the other . Bard doesnt have to become a different role it is intended as part of the DPS role. You can support with different classes it doesnt mean your changing role 'support' is not changing role. Or ast woul be termed just a support

[bounddreamer]

Nope, wrong again. Clicking cleric stance means you are switching your MND and INT stats. That's all.

In all of the dungeons around 28 and under, I can sit in cleric stance the entire time, never swapping out of it, and still keep tanks topped off with zero issues. The healing requirements are THAT minimal. I haven't "changed roles." I'm using both damage spells and healing spells. The damage spells have added kick because of the INT bonus.

[Feyona]

Nope, wrong again. Clicking cleric stance means you are switching your MND and INT stats. That's all.

In all of the dungeons around 28 and under, I can sit in cleric stance the entire time, never swapping out of it, and still keep tanks topped off with zero issues. The healing requirements are THAT minimal. I haven't "changed roles." I'm using both damage spells and healing spells. The damage spells have added kick because of the INT bonus.

Then you are a dps and not a healer, which actually proves my point rather than makes it 'wrong' Just because low content exists that dont need much healing doesnt make the fact that you go into cleric to become a dps a fact, cleric makes you a dps role.

[Taika]

Then you are a dps and not a healer, which actually proves my point rather than makes it 'wrong'

You're a healer who is using their DPS abilities. Healer jobs are hybrid jobs in this game: they heal, DPS and buff. You're not changing from one job or a role to another, you're playing one job which has all three types of abilities.

Ah c'mn Taika...pls...

I thought we were way beyond this false statement... cleric was designed for solo leveling

This is not true in the slightest. The game is designed to support healer DPS in group content (it's even required in for example Antitower) and even the official instructions (Hall of the Novice and the official Japanese FFXIV magazine) from the developers say healers are supposed to look for opportunities for DPS.

[Neela]

Healer jobs are hybrid jobs in this game:

Ah c'mn Taika...pls...

I thought we were way beyond this false statement... cleric was designed for solo leveling –
the com made it part of the "main" tasks healer should workout in the end... ^^'

[Feyona]

You're a healer who is using their DPS abilities. Healer jobs are hybrid jobs in this game: they heal, DPS and buff. You're not changing from one job or a role to another, you're playing one job which has all three types of abilities.

I dont agree that healer is the same role as dps and even if it was intended to be, which I believe from numerous sources that it wasnt then I would be asking for a choice of roles to play

[bounddreamer]

Then you are a dps and not a healer, which actually proves my point rather than makes it 'wrong' Just because low content exists that dont need much healing doesnt make the fact that you go into cleric to become a dps a fact, cleric makes you a dps role.

Just because you're saying words doesn't make them correct.

"You're a dps and not a healer..." No, that's not correct. I am a healer using my entire toolkit. Stone heavies the mob and makes them move more slowly. Aero applies a dot. Meanwhile the tank takes a trivial amount of damage. Cure tops them off.

This is BASIC.

I don't have to do any of that with cleric stance switched on. In fact, I've seen plenty of healers apply stone without using cleric stance.

"Cleric makes you a dps role..." Nnnnnnno, it doesn't. It swaps your INT and MND and gives you a damage bonus. That is literally all it does. It doesn't SWITCH OFF your healing spells. It makes them less effective. But if you're in content where healing requirements are trivial, even that "less effective" cure can be enough.