Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[Kitfox]

However... but please just stop this "every cls is intended to dps concept-wise." It's just not true.

Of course it's true. But it's not about DPS, it's the abilities all classes have. You CAN dps, so you should if you have the possiblity. Same as tanks should DPS when they can, PLD should Clemency if it saves a run, SMN should Raise, DPS should use their defensive buffs and Second Wind, BRD/MCH/NIN should recover party's TP/MP, all classes should use all of their abilities.

It's not about being a Healer, or a Tank, OR a DPS, it's about "You have this spell/ability that does something, use it because it's useful!"

[Neela]

Of course it's true. (...) You CAN dps, so you should if you have the possiblity.

either you haven't read my post or you didn't get my post -> this is actually the coms mindset - thx for the proof. ^^

[Neela]

It's not about being a Healer, or a Tank, OR a DPS, it's about "You have this spell/ability that does something, use it because it's useful!"

if you stick to this... do u use f.e. freeze on blm out of pvp? I mean it freezes mobs right? Healer may dps cause they have to heal less, right? Now the question - which Blm is useing freeze in dngs? "you got it than use it" - is just another more or less worthless argument – every cls got skills which won't be used in general content, but why? I think we got it to use it? ; )

edit: the first one who takes this post serious will win a cookie :3

[Taika]

if you stick to this... do u use f.e. freeze on blm out of pvp? I mean it freezes mobs right? Healer may dps cause they have to heal less, right? Now the question - which Blm use freeze in dngs? "you got it than use it" - is just another more or less worthless argument – every cls got skills which won't be used in generell content, but why? I think we got it to use it? ; )

She said you should use it because it's useful. And that argument is valid for all jobs equally. Freeze is not useful, so you should not use it. Holy is, so you should.

In fact, the general guideline to playing every single job well in this game is: aim for using the most useful ability for each of your cooldowns.

[Feyona]

She said you should use it because it's useful. And that argument is valid for all jobs equally. Freeze is not useful, so you should not use it. Holy is, so you should.

I have seen posts that suggest that If a spell is in your toolkit you are meant to use it like dps spells if your a healer. Then not saying its not useful, but think thats what Neela meant. Not trying to split hairs but heaing spells are the most useful to a healer.

[Taika]

I have seen posts that suggest that If a spell is in your toolkit you are meant to use it like dps spells if your a healer. Then not saying its not useful, but think thats what Neela meant. Not trying to split hairs but heaing spells are the most useful to a healer.

If you have an ability and it's useful, you are supposed to use it. Furthermore, you're supposed to use whichever ability is the most beneficial in each given situation. The usefulness of your abilities depends entirely on the situation. If your party members are at 100% health, your healing spells are 100% useless in that situation, and your DPS abilities are useful. If your tank is dying, your healing abilities become much more useful than your DPS abilities. It depends on the content and the situation.

I just wish people could see beyond their obsession of splitting the healer toolkit into two. It doesn't matter if an ability is "healing ability" or "DPS ability". If it's an ability you have, and using it helps your party in the situation you're in, use it. It really is as simple as that.

It's simple logic, intention or design doesn't matter as long as the fact remains that one option is useful, the other one isn't. Nobody knows how classes are truely "intended" to be played, that's why we can't argue for it. We must look at the reality, look at things we can do, evaluate what is useful, and then act accordingly. Otherwise you're being irrational. The community didn't just randomly decide that DPS is somehow a good thing, it is a a logical conclusion that stems from learning the game mechanics and rules.

1000000000 times this!

[Kitfox]

oh that was fast oh and u took it serious : /

I know what her point is and my example was not that serious - I just can't stand why people still spread things wrong even Yoshi himself cleared it up more than once. Nobody in here can really know how a cls is intended to be played 100% for real - so why are so many of the com point this dps-bullshit as a given fact? Nobody doubt that healer and tank dps optimize a run but it just isn't an intended given game design fact - thats all.

The point is: It doesn't matter what the "intended" design is. The only thing that matters is what it actually is in reality.

I have seen posts that suggest that If a spell is in your toolkit you are meant to use it like dps spells if your a healer. Then not saying its not useful, but think thats what Neela meant. Not trying to split hairs but heaing spells are the most useful to a healer.

The logical fact is that a healing spell is useless when a player HP bar is full. DPS spell is useful when the enemy HP bar has something left in it. Everything is situational.

It's simple logic, intention or design doesn't matter as long as the fact remains that one option is useful, the other one isn't. Nobody knows how classes are truely "intended" to be played, that's why we can't argue for it. We must look at the reality, look at things we can do, evaluate what is useful, and then act accordingly. Otherwise you're being irrational. The community didn't just randomly decide that DPS is somehow a good thing, it is a a logical conclusion that stems from learning the game mechanics and rules.

[Feyona]

The point is: It doesn't matter what the "intended" design is. The only thing that matters is what it actually is in reality.


The logical fact is that a healing spell is useless when a player HP bar is full. DPS spel

I think its because many posts here are saying that it is a part of game design that it was meant to be played that way. Its not that I dont agree with you at all, but some may take even that logic to extremes, like 'people will get the boot' etc if they dont cast 100% of the time, and no other role is being focussed on this factor quite so much as now. I mean bismark was the first trial that was expected now its every instance.

[Neela]

I think its because many posts here are saying that it is a part of game design that it was meant to be played that way. Its not that I dont agree with you at all, but some may take even that logic to extremes, like 'people will get the boot' etc if they dont cast 100% of the time, and no other role is being focussed on this factor quite so much as now. I mean bismark was the first trial that was expected now its every instance.

yeah I never doubt that extra dps is good – it's just the crowd who talk like they develop the game theirselves ^^

[Taika]

Its not that I dont agree with you at all, but some may take even that logic to extremes, like 'people will get the boot' etc if they dont cast 100% of the time

Enough with the silly strawman arguments. Absolutely no one here has suggested anything like kicking people who don't cast 100%. The only discussions about removing people from party have - from what I've seen - concerned people who literally stand afk or /follow the tank or are otherwise being intentionally useless to their party.