Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[Neela]

Of course it's true. (...) You CAN dps, so you should if you have the possiblity.

either you haven't read my post or you didn't get my post -> this is actually the coms mindset - thx for the proof. ^^

[Lambdafish]

snip

I think you misunderstand the way that cleric stance is designed. It is a high risk, high reward skill that rewards players for playing well, and discourages its use unless the time is right. If cleric stance worked the way you want it to it would promote the idea that healers are meant to DPS as much as they heal on a base level (which isn't true, even though healer DPS is important), if cleric stance was made easier to use, players would actually get worse because they would feel safe in cleric stance all the time.

I don't know how the situation happened that you are describing, but it sounds like the design of cleric is not at fault, whether it is you, your co-healer, your tank or just plain bad luck, cleric stance is not at fault (though it very much reads as you messing up and being in cleric stance at the wrong time, try resolving it by communicating with your party, rather than bitching about the design of a skill on the forums).

Oh and for the record, I'm a tank, I'm not overly protective of a skill for a role I don't play, though you are welcome to cry bias as much as you like.

[Feyona]

I think you misunderstand the way that cleric stance is designed. It is a high risk, high reward skill that rewards players for playing well, and discourages its use unless the time is right.

Yes 'high risk' does imply that mistakes can and do happen with it, not sure that the high risk factor makes you a better healer though, guess thats a debateable point cos that means that no one who is considered expert ever is in cleric at the wrong time. I mean my priority is to heal, and see your point that if it was intell, then it would confirm that belief that it was more my job, or dps as much as heal, maybe. Yes have to agree there. Still see cleric as a bit of a handicap though and is it really necessary to make things harder just so some can think they are better healers? Or whatever reasoning I see here. My comment wasnt aimed at you btw but the likes people get for having a pop at anything I say. Plus few posts here.

[Lambdafish]

Still see cleric as a bit of a handicap though and is it really necessary to make things harder just so some can think they are better healers?

This isn't about other people, cleric stance is harder to use so that you actually have to think before using it (this is really easy to do in expert dungeons, but when it comes to raiding it should be co-ordinated between the healers). This thought process is what a lot of "pro" healers enjoy about the role, and there are a tonne of skills in the game that are designed in a way that allows cleric stance to be used more easily (rouse, medica 2, regen, Aspected Benefic etc.)

[Feyona]

I mean I did play disc priest for afew years, where, the role was actually intended to dps, u didnt have to change stance, to do it but still considered a healer. So that may be where Im coming from and healers there were not devalued for just healing but disc priest was a playstyle choice and with priest you coul go holy (heals only), dicpline( healer/dps), or shadow (dps) I know this game isnt wow, and its different but people had a playstyle choice. What Im really against is it being forced on all healers, wether they like it or not.

[Feyona]

This isn't about other people, cleric stance is harder to use so that you actually have to think before using it (this is really easy to do in expert dungeons, but when it comes to raiding it should be co-ordinated between the healers). This thought process is what a lot of "pro" healers enjoy about the role, and there are a tonne of skills in the game that are designed in a way that allows cleric stance to be used more easily (rouse, medica 2, regen, Aspected Benefic etc.)

Yes think that was my point that you have to rely on co healer to do it and cant always

[Neela]

It's not about being a Healer, or a Tank, OR a DPS, it's about "You have this spell/ability that does something, use it because it's useful!"

if you stick to this... do u use f.e. freeze on blm out of pvp? I mean it freezes mobs right? Healer may dps cause they have to heal less, right? Now the question - which Blm is useing freeze in dngs? "you got it than use it" - is just another more or less worthless argument – every cls got skills which won't be used in general content, but why? I think we got it to use it? ; )

edit: the first one who takes this post serious will win a cookie :3

[Taika]

if you stick to this... do u use f.e. freeze on blm out of pvp? I mean it freezes mobs right? Healer may dps cause they have to heal less, right? Now the question - which Blm use freeze in dngs? "you got it than use it" - is just another more or less worthless argument – every cls got skills which won't be used in generell content, but why? I think we got it to use it? ; )

She said you should use it because it's useful. And that argument is valid for all jobs equally. Freeze is not useful, so you should not use it. Holy is, so you should.

In fact, the general guideline to playing every single job well in this game is: aim for using the most useful ability for each of your cooldowns.

[Feyona]

She said you should use it because it's useful. And that argument is valid for all jobs equally. Freeze is not useful, so you should not use it. Holy is, so you should.

I have seen posts that suggest that If a spell is in your toolkit you are meant to use it like dps spells if your a healer. Then not saying its not useful, but think thats what Neela meant. Not trying to split hairs but heaing spells are the most useful to a healer.

[Neela]

She said you should use it because it's useful. And that argument is valid for all jobs equally. Freeze is not useful, so you should not use it. Holy is, so you should.

oh that was fast oh and u took it serious : /

I know what her point is and my example was not that serious - I just can't stand why people still spread things wrong even Yoshi himself cleared it up more than once. Nobody in here can really know how a cls is intended to be played 100% for real - so why are so many of the com point this dps-bullshit as a given fact? Nobody doubt that healer and tank dps optimize a run but it just isn't an intended given game design fact - thats all.

edit: THX Feyo you got it right :*