DPS obsession in farm groups

[Atreyu]

1) I guarantee that a lot of the lower performers in this community aren't even aware they're bad because everyone else is too afraid to speak up and tell them (and not without reason, since even as this thread has shown, people being called out even in a nice manner will respond with hostility and threats of reports).

To confirm and shame myself a little, I was this player. When I got kicked out of my first party I started to question what I was doing wrong. When I was finally called out is when I started to actually change and now I do better DPS than most of my friends.

Also as a NIN main, enmity bars are complete garbage for determining DPS. Any DPS that can shed hate SHOULD be doing so.

[Taika]

Not even a little bit. I have no problem in people saying that DPS is low but you shouldn't identify people and shame them for it.

Identify yes, shame no. If there are 4 DDs in the party and 1 of them is doing way below the standard (and I do mean standard, not top 3%) for their job, there's nothing wrong with politely telling them they should practice their rotation a bit more before requeueing since they're not up for pulling their own weight in the group yet. After all, we're talking about endgame content here.

[ffchampion]

Identify yes, shame no. If there are 4 DDs in the party and 1 of them is doing way below the standard (and I do mean standard, not top 3%) for their job, there's nothing wrong with politely telling them they should practice their rotation a bit more before requeueing since they're not up for pulling their own weight in the group yet. After all, we're talking about endgame content here.

This i agree with (probably should have phrased better) but yes say if one person isn't doing ideal amount of damage for their role. Just don't shame them by physically going "here is everyones DPS. look how crap you did"

[Neophyte]

Well if you actually looked what i put i did say out of the DPS. not everyone

A SMN, which is outdpsing the 2nd place with 500+ dps might also be on 6-8th place emnitywise. 400-500 dps only generate pet emnity and opener (3-5k burst, depending on group buffs) is halfed with quelling.

Especially if those other players don't use their emnity tools.

[ShaneDawn]

Then. Why a party who do perfectly the mechanics, down the boss, but didn't skip first soar is a bad party? Because that's he problem right now. You can do the fight with no deaths and all perfect without skip soar and people sill will say sucks because no skip soar. That's the thing here.

A party that can't skip Soar with 6 DPS means that those 6 DPS cannot even perform an adequate opener. Players that can not even do an adequate opener, a very basic function in their chosen class, are bad. A party consisting of bad players is also bad.

Of course the same can be said about a group of people that can do their opener but can't do mechanics.

Then again, if your party doesn't want to skip Soar, which is all fine and good, then just get 2 heals and tanks. Playing with 5-6 DPS makes very little sense if Soar is not skipped anyways.

It's all a matter of perspective and how you look at it: why bring extra DPS players and make the run more cumbersome for tanks/healers if you're not expecting them to carry their weight in the first place?

[LalaRu]

Whoever reads me here and there, knows I am quite a defender of casual playing, but hey, if I join a farm party I know I'm expected to perform at a given rate. Farming party and learning party are two different things. Joining a farm party expecting a carry is a no go.

[Neophyte]

It's nice and an advantage to have a group with such high DPS but what do you do with it if you cannot perform?

Mechanics > Dps
I'm more amused about PF with "Farm , NO BONUS" when their DPS and their performance are beyond poor. Just take Niddhog ex as an example. The amount of wipes at bombs and nails are something very common...

People should be more focus on mechanics rather than asking for high DPS.

Just throwing this out there.

Those are not disjunkctive things. Especially in Zurvan, regarding soar skip, because there are no (real) mechanics up to this point.
Point of this game is to do both: Do (and adjust) your rotation, while doing mechanics.

Also I'm tired of this strawman. Usually a 2,5-3k parsing dps is capable of doing mechanics. What do you even make you think that those people who do a pretty good rotation are also those who fail to do the mechanics? Do you have a parser and recognize that it's always the highest parsing dps that does the mistake? I don't think so.

Also, Mechanics in this game are (usually) easy and so is an average rotation. The only obstacle is to combine both, that is what you want to have in a farm group.
Let's just look at Thordan Ex, a "mechanic heavy" fight. The fact that in the first phase you have to a) dodge an circle AoE (1-2s movement), b) dodge the spread AoE (1s movement), c) turn around once (2s), d) spread and then e) stack shouldn't lower your expected max dps by 30-50%. Period. Not in a farm group (nowadays you don't see all those anymore anyway. But back in the day you could aim for skipping the tankbuster).
And that's Thordan.

We're talking about Zurvan, there are only 2 AoEs and people still lose 50%+ of the expected dps. The only mechanics which have likely a big effect on dps are Broken Seal and Soar itself. The former is later in the fight, the latter is the thing you wanna skip. There is absolutly no excuse in not doing high dps other than "I can't" or "I don't want".
First ones I suggest to do some more kill partys (1 kill is not enough to join a farm usually) and the other ones I'd blackilist.

[Mature]

Those are not disjunkctive things. Especially in Zurvan, regarding soar skip, because there are no (real) mechanics up to this point.
Point of this game is to do both: Do (and adjust) your rotation, while doing mechanics.

Also I'm tired of this strawman. Usually a 2,5-3k parsing dps is capable of doing mechanics. What do you even make you think that those people who do a pretty good rotation are also those who fail to do the mechanics? Do you have a parser and recognize that it's always the highest parsing dps that does the mistake? I don't think so.

In party's I've been usually IS the high dps making the "easy" mistakes. Due to the fact the become over confident about the fight that they just don't care.

Plus at the end of the day mechanics is what define the outcome. Once you have the mechanics of the fight sorted the DPS will come into play.

[Neophyte]

In party's I've been usually IS the high dps making the "easy" mistakes. Due to the fact the become over confident about the fight that they just don't care.

Most of high parsing dps have their rotation adjusted to "easy" mechanics. Like good ranged will use their movement friendly skills for Biting Halberd, move already into agood spot for Broken Seal, etc. High dps throughout a whole fight happens only if you know and execute every mechanic properly. And high dps player usually know that. If soar happens, it's 5-10s to get to your position, while the boss moves away. I don't think that people mess this up because they are to "confident".

I don't know why people mess this up often, but a correlation with dps is neither fact based, nor likely. I'm sorry to say, but most of the 85th+ percentile people are pretty good at doing mechanics.

Plus at the end of the day mechanics is what define the outcome. Once you have the mechanics of the fight sorted the DPS will come into play.

You mean.. like in a farm group, where everybody in there should know the mechanics precisly (like a healer should know that there is almost no incoming unavoidable damage in the 1st phase and he can therefor dps a lot) and therefore has an group dps, which shouldn't let you see soar anyway? :^)
Right.

[Aquaslash]

I wouldn't really call it a bonus if the sole reason you were going with a specific party comp in the first place was to skip the mechanic. You can argue all day about people being terrible for not knowing how to perform the mechanic properly, but in this particular instance the blame should fall on the damage dealers. If the DPS were doing their jobs properly, the party wouldn't have to deal with the mechanic to being with, regardless of whether or not people knew how to do it. Otherwise, what on earth was the point in going with 1/2/5 or even 1/1/6 if you aren't doing any better than 2/2/4? That's just extra stress and less room for error for no reason in that case.

Such things should be the exception, not standard. The fact that we are where we are now just shows one of the many things wrong with Zurvan and this community