DPS obsession in farm groups

[Watachy]

Normally with Tank/Heal if you are blaming them its due to deaths/wipes. Blaming DPS is for not doing things as quick as you would like. That's the difference here. People not being happy with how quick it is. If a DPS is causing wipes then they should be held accountable. If a DPS is doing low damage then yes mention it. but you don't be a knob and say "you did x amount. git gud" as what i've seen a lot.

So you should not point out someone performing poorly waiting for a carry ?
Seems like you're that person cause your posts looks way too salty.

[ElHeggunte]

Welcome to FFXIV in 2017. We have what we deserve, because we didn't stop this people form turn the community into this.

You're right. Now we're stuck with an increasingly mediocre community because apologists want to give a free pass for a poor performance instead of actually holding players accountable for dragging their groups down.

The former, and only the former. Mechanic skipping is a bonus for performing above and beyond the call of duty. It is not and should not be the bloody standard. Your whole group is trash for being unable to do a mechanic and relying on brute force to bypass it.

I wouldn't really call it a bonus if the sole reason you were going with a specific party comp in the first place was to skip the mechanic. You can argue all day about people being terrible for not knowing how to perform the mechanic properly, but in this particular instance the blame should fall on the damage dealers. If the DPS were doing their jobs properly, the party wouldn't have to deal with the mechanic to being with, regardless of whether or not people knew how to do it. Otherwise, what on earth was the point in going with 1/2/5 or even 1/1/6 if you aren't doing any better than 2/2/4? That's just extra stress and less room for error for no reason in that case.

[ffchampion]

So you should not point out someone performing poorly waiting for a carry ?
Seems like you're that person cause your posts looks way too salty.

Not even a little bit. I have no problem in people saying that DPS is low but you shouldn't identify people and shame them for it. That's exactly why Yoshida doesn't want a parser in this game! In groups i've joined i'd say my DPS is around about the middle i'm not gonna lie and say i'm amazing because i'm still gearing up my 270 stuff at the moment. I don't need a parser to see if i'm dealing enough damage. I can see that from the order of Enmity. if i was the DPS with the most enmity then generally you can tell that you are outputting the most dps. the opposite can be said about being at the bottom of the enmity chart

EDIT: just to clarify since all the issues i've had with people whining about other people's DPS is from Raid Finder.

[Watachy]

I don't need a parser to see if i'm dealing enough damage. I can see that from the order of Enmity.

Ok i think i will stop arguing here.

The enmity mark is badly designed since spells like NIN shadows and smoke screen can change it.
You can't say that you're dpsing well just by using this information.

Anyway i would never kick someone for dpsing poorly, i will just ask them to step up or we won't clear the duty.
Why in the first place would you join a farm party if it's to hold down the party ? As i said, too many people are looking for a carry nowadays.

[ffchampion]

Anyway i would never kick someone for dpsing poorly, i will just ask them to step up or we won't clear the duty.
Why in the first place would you join a farm party if it's to hold down the party ? As i said, too many people are looking for a carry nowadays.

Final thing from me: yes i generally look at the enmity marker. However i will not attempt a duty unless i can clear the Stone Sky Sea version of it. If someone can clear that with time remaining then that means that they are able to do the trial. More people just need to be trying stone sky sea before jumping in blind

[Yeol]

if i was the DPS with the most enmity then generally you can tell that you are outputting the most dps. the opposite can be said about being at the bottom of the enmity chart

Just want to point our that enmity bar is not the right way to measure your performance because healers can generate lots of hate just by over healing. And some dps jobs can lower their enmity generation

[ffchampion]

Just want to point our that enmity bar is not the right way to measure your performance because healers can generate lots of hate just by over healing. And some dps jobs can lower their enmity generation

Yeah if i'm doing trials etc i'll always do the Stone Sky Sea first as a dps

[ElHeggunte]

Not even a little bit. I have no problem in people saying that DPS is low but you shouldn't identify people and shame them for it.

1) Making a vague statement about low DPS doesn't help anyone even if it's the "nice" way to go about it. You need to identify the people who are underperforming to either encourage them to try harder or to remove them if they continue to be a problem. I guarantee that a lot of the lower performers in this community aren't even aware they're bad because everyone else is too afraid to speak up and tell them (and not without reason, since even as this thread has shown, people being called out even in a nice manner will respond with hostility and threats of reports).

2) The enmity bar is a pretty poor measure of DPS because everyone besides Monk has a way to dump aggro or reduce its generation. I mean, it can kind of be used as a benchmark if you have absolutely no other way of determining output (no DPS class should ever be at the very bottom of the list unless they just died, for example), but there are a lot of mitigating factors that can keep it from being properly representative of actual performance.

[Watachy]

Just want to point our that enmity bar is not the right way to measure your performance because healers can generate lots of hate just by over healing. And some dps jobs can lower their enmity generation

Agreed that's the worst thing you could lookt at.

That would just mean the MT is first DPS lul

1) Making a vague statement about low DPS doesn't help anyone even if it's the "nice" way to go about it. You need to identify the people who are underperforming to either encourage them to try harder or to remove them if they continue to be a problem. I guarantee that a lot of the lower performers in this community aren't even aware they're bad because everyone else is too afraid to speak up and tell them (and not without reason, since even as this thread has shown, people being called out even in a nice manner will respond with hostility and threats of reports).

Or when you say someone to look a guide or something you're called "fu***** elitist" and hurt the "let me play the way i want" argument.

[ffchampion]

Agreed that's the worst thing you could lookt at.

That would just mean the MT is first DPS lul

Well if you actually looked what i put i did say out of the DPS. not everyone