Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[Feyona]

Thank you for all your replies, you dont really have to keep telling me that healer dps is optimal or that, dpsing fills in the spaces and with respect you help your team. If you really knew how I play in dungeons you wouldnt need to. I dont mind being busy I always am though. There is a big but here, can I start dpsing in a 15 sec window on Zurvan ex or a10s? No I cant, one of the reasons is that, that dpsing to me is a completely different mindset to adjust to in a sense, and when Im worried about the team Im not so quick at it. Another reason is that even in a static someone still dies often, think cleared about three times with no one dying, thats incuding me. When things get hectic theres a kind of mind block where u start to panic heal. Healing does carry its own weight in terms of wanting to keep people alive and that responsibility.

[Feyona]

I am not sure if all of you know whats happenning out there in the the game but I will say it anyway, after what my fc were talking about last night. Groups are literally taking the p**s out of healers these days, dps not playing optimally or even bothering to produce enough dps for the fight are EXPECTING the healers to carry them, with healer dps. I do hope SE are monitoring that.

[Juicinators]

At the end of the day healers should DPS but if they don't want to, it should be fine and they shouldn't get kicked from party. If you can't clear content because Because DPS is to low, you should be looking at the DPS and not the healer. If the healer not throwing out any heal spells you not gonna blame the DPS. I don't know why you wouldn't want to DPS though.

[SachiBear]

snippy

After reading through more of this, I can see your p.o.v, although I don't see eye to eye with you, as you don't with the other dps healers.

It was disappointing to see some of the comments towards you with people hinting towards the "I'm better than you," and "You suck if you don't do it my way" arguments. I believe those comments were deleted though. Regardless, at this point you're choosing to do what you want to do, and that's absolutely fine, because other people play how they want to too. This thread has been going on for a while now, even though you've stated already that you don't want to dps. You don't seem to be changing your mind, so it's kind of just overkill at this point. If people have a problem with it...well, they can find a new party or a new healer that fits their style.

In the future though, if you want to try new things you should take the leap. Even if just for a little bit, you should try to dip your toes in the water. You might actually discover that you like something more than you thought you would've

[Feyona]

At the end of the day healers should DPS but if they don't want to, it should be fine and they shouldn't get kicked from party. If you can't clear content because Because DPS is to low, you should be looking at the DPS and not the healer. If the healer not throwing out any heal spells you not gonna blame the DPS. I don't know why you wouldn't want to DPS though.

Ok Ill tell you I do not mind dps to help my team, when the fight is not difficult. Or no one is dying. I do not like dps as a playstyle anyway. You do have to get used to a different set of skills. Like a guy said above may have enjoyed blm until the rotation was made kind of awkward to play and I know what hes talking about cos Ive got one. Cleric is awkward too for me, and Im not against dpsing in low levels its more about healers being forced to in high level stuff that some cant pull off so easily, but because its there some groups are taking the p**s

[Feyona]

Please read my response carefully ♥ This isn't an attack on any healing only healer. But an explanation as to why people get frustrated with t

You can disagree but every time I play as a DPS in a dungeon and see a healer mostly AFK healing, I am 100% justified to suddenly only-auto attack, or go ice mage, or remove my turret, or dismiss my pet, or just stop doing something for a few seconds until the tank is low on health and then attack again for a few seconds. And healers have no right to complain. Because I'm putting in as much effort as they are.

You missed out pet buffs Seriousy though, your an optimal player I get that, but do you realize your putting two classes together? That scholar has much more healing potential than dps and do you understand that it is beyond some people's capabilty to 1. Play 2 classes at once, and 2. Play to the most optimal efficiency at all times in all instances

[Spiroglyph]

You missed out pet buffs Seriousy though, your an optimal player I get that, but do you realize your putting two classes together? That scholar has much more healing potential than dps and do you understand that it is beyond some people's capabilty to 1. Play 2 classes at once, and 2. Play to the most optimal efficiency at all times in all instances

Pet buffs?... I wouldn't put it past most DF scholars to set their pets on sic, in which case pet buffs is one less thing they're doing themselves.

Okay. Then, let me ask you something. What do you think of the following skills: Second Wind, Bloodbath, Manawall/ward, Equilibrium, Clemency?... And besides this, literally all defensive cooldowns in every job ever. Is this optimizing or min maxing? I wouldn't say so, no. Since people have access to these skills, they should be expected to make full use of them. Some of them restore HP (looking specifically at Equilibrium and Clemency), and means a tank could potentially save themselves if the healer doesn't react quickly enough. Now, they are not healer jobs, right? Why do they have these skills at all then?

Is this also combining two classes? Or are these skills meant for solo content?

EDIT FOR WORD LIMIT:I would also like to point out that you're seriously underestimating a healer's ability to dps, specially in large amounts of mobs. As scholar, I can place my fairy in a set position, set up rouse+whispering dawn, use a mouse over embrace spam macro and I hardly have to bother with healing for a while (let's assume for a while that your tank does use his/her cooldowns as they should be used) - now, I have at my disposal 3 dots which I can spread out with bane, shadow flare, and miasma 2, AND blizzard 2 in case the fact is indeed taking negligible damage.

I won't post maths or graphs, but do you actually believe our DPS is negligible? If so, I'm sorry, but you don't know/understand your skills.

Also, it might be that you have indeed very potent healing spells - they still won't be used for much if you're overhealing.

Now, as I've said before, you're absolutely, undeniably allowed to play however you want - but don't try and convince others than you're doing anything besides a mediocre job.

EDIT BECAUSE I REMEMBERED THINGS I WANT TO ADD: I would also like to point out a few things - mostly because after reading a few more of your comments on this thread I believe you lack the confidence to stance dance, I assume because you've tried and it didn't go well.

1) No healer is immediately able to perfectly stance dance and optimize all their skills at the drop of a hat - most of us have caused quite a few wipes in the process of learning (I still do derp sometimes).

2) You don't need to use CS to dish out some DPS! - if you lack the confidence to use CS, try out using some damage spells in dungeons and roulettes, just to test out and see how comfortable you are with letting the tank's HP drop, and such.

3) As a scholar, it's useful to try and place your fairy in a set position when you can, because fairy AI is set to prioritize following you instead of healing. As such, if you're in the middle of a pack of mobs and have to focus on avoiding AOEs, it's a lot of downtime for the fairy - instead, place it somewhere close to the tank and have it follow it again when the mobs go down.

4) Practise rotations in striking dummies! They're great help for us healers too!

5) Listen and pay attention to advice randomly given, even if by people in DF - I started maining schat the start of heavensward, and at the time I had minimal understanding of the job. Most advice I've been given, was given to me not by FC mates or friends, but people I did comtent with - a random DPS that once mentioned I could sub in aero to add to DPS (at the time I had surecast /rolleye), someone once commented that if the tank was squishier than normal I could set down sacred soil, cast dots and bane and THEN cast shadow flare (by this time SS will have worn off so it's not a wasted AF stack), and so on.

6) PRACTISE
7) PRACTISE
8) PRACTISE

In case you really just don't like/want to DPS though, as I've pointed out before - it's up to you to do it or not. You're free not to, like those tanks (that I absolutely despise) are free to not pop a single damn cooldown, and rebelious BLMs and BRDs can ignore all their HW skills and choose to ignore enochian and WM and stick to their old rotations. But when I'm casting something every time I can, and using all skills available to me, I can damn well feel annoyed at them for such behaviors.

I honestly do not know how any healer can stand to run instances like expert roulette dungeons without DPSing though - I do not mean this as an insult; it's just that the healing required is so little, and the content so predictable and repetitive, I'd be bored to death if I didn't dish out some DPS.

FINAL EDIT, REALLY I SWEAR: tl;dr play however you want, others will do the same, some will gree other will not, you might get kicked or you might meet people who sympathize and you'll make new friends. Not DPSing doesn't make you a bad player, perhaps a less active one, but some people just won't care, overall it's more important to have a good attitude toward people - if they comment on your playstyle, DO NOT SNAP BACK. Explain that DPSing is simply something you don't like to do, or that you don't feel comfortable with. High chances are, they'll be chill with it.

[Lauren]

You missed out pet buffs Seriousy though, your an optimal player I get that, but do you realize your putting two classes together? That scholar has much more healing potential than dps and do you understand that it is beyond some people's capabilty to 1. Play 2 classes at once, and 2. Play to the most optimal efficiency at all times in all instances

Pet buffs? They come up every 60/120 seconds. How is that in anyway stopping you from casting a 2-3 second (or mostly instant in SCH's case) spell!?

I'm only optimal when I raid. But in dungeons, I'm relaxed and having fun. I don't care if the DPS is optimal or not or if there is the occasional wipe. I do care when someone is doing bugger all and the rest of the team have to pick up their slack because of poor reasoning.

We might have fun differently but I see a huge difference between "being optimal", as you say, and being pretty inactive during the dungeon.

I'm not putting two classes together. WHM, for example, is a job. WHM has both DPS and healing skills. It's one class. I'm not asking you to play 2 roles. You are playing 1. And that role can heal and DPS. Same as Tank can take damage and DPS. And that some DPS have healing, utility, tanking and more.

I've not said Scholar has more DPS potential than healing. Not once. But not that much content requires this, and if it doesn't, it's difficult content that requires you to be semi-optimal.

I'm talking dungeons, levequests and 24-man. Not raid or ex primals.

Let's say for example my average basic rotation (not optimal, jsut relaxed) sees me pressing a button 100 times in 120 seconds (casts etc). Most healers people complain about do 15 actions in 100 seconds. That means, instead of standing there doing nothing for over 60 seconds (basically afk), you could have thrown out about 15+ DPS actions minimum. That's what people are getting at. It's literally you DOING SOMETHING USEFUL over doing nothing when every other role (dps/tank) is expected to do something at all times. And when that doing something just means healing the 99% full health tank again, it's annoying. What is it about pressing a different button that upsets you so much? You're just casting something onto an enemy? Is that what it is? Having to switch targets? Is it pressing another button to go into a DPS stance? Is that a problem. 3 buttons max. Cleric Stance. Stone III, Stone III, Stone III, Cleric Stance. Heal.


You are confusing/misinterpreting basic game play as some kind of optimal demand. I spend the time explaining in great detail as to why people see this as lazy. But after reading your reply, and your reply to others, you don't want to accept it.

Let me make this incredibly clear to you;

If you are standing around hitting a cure every now and then, and your tank is taking hardly any damage in the slightest, you are being an in-active player. Which means there is time for you to press extra buttons like Stone II for example.

If you are having to heal often, pressing buttons at least every 1-2 seconds, no-one is expecting you to DPS in those situations, unless you are playing optimal.

It is selfish/lazy because you are expecting everyone else around you to press buttons every second while you stand around and press 1 or 2 buttons occasionally.


It's not about optimal playstyle. It's literally about button pressing. If you are hardly pressing buttons, you are making others press more buttons. It's unfair. It's lazy.

Now, as I've said before, you're absolutely, undeniably allowed to play however you want - but don't try and convince others than you're doing anything besides a mediocre job.

This. This. This.

[Feyona]

Pet buf

Now, as I've said before, you're absolutely, undeniably allowed to play however you want - but don't try and convince others than you're doing anything besides a mediocre job.

you are so right some are mdiocre players though and that may be their limit, or they may belazy but please let people enjoy themselves, is it so bad if some arnt as good as others? Your enjoying yourself too if you clear content? I really dont even mind if some are lazy I just love helping the 'bad' players out and seeing them happy.To add to this I will always do everything to the best of my capabability, that is my mindset and will always attempt to improve. I wish I could be better so I can help more poeple be happy and I dont care if they give back. This aspect of the game is fun for me too -seeing people happy like helping people get a bird, cos they work and havent got the time to grind gear etc.

[Juicinators]

Ok Ill tell you I do not mind dps to help my team, when the fight is not difficult. Or no one is dying. I do not like dps as a playstyle anyway. You do have to get used to a different set of skills. Like a guy said above may have enjoyed blm until the rotation was made kind of awkward to play and I know what hes talking about cos Ive got one. Cleric is awkward too for me, and Im not against dpsing in low levels its more about healers being forced to in high level stuff that some cant pull off so easily, but because its there some groups are taking the p**s

Maybe I came across wrong. I've been agreeing with you this whole time. You should be able to just heal and nothing should be said about it. I don't expect healers to DPS as long as the group stays alive you did your job. No healer should be kicked for healing. They need to make fights more healer intense in my opinion.