Should healers now be allowed to play how they choose to play?

[Fernosaur]

Really this wasnt meant to be about laziness, or people 'pulling their weight', It was a question about whether healers can be healers as a chosen, preferred playstyle, which many players may prefer or enjoy more. We have already had the debates about those issues above, about everyone needing to be busy doing something 100% of the time or seen to be 'working'. No one is coercing any dps to choose healing as a playstyle, so I feel this is possibly a little one sided. If a healer that has chosen that playstyle, has gaps in between healing and cannot tolerate it, they could play dps instead, Ast has their cards to buff in 'gaps'. In reply to the guy that tells people to leave if they dont like things how they are, this is not really a solution for people that would like to play in their preferred way.

While I understand your point entirely, I'm gonna repeat what I posted a long time ago in one of those countless "I don't wanna DPS" healer threads.

Healing in FFXIV is DPSing, as is tanking too. I understand what you mean with people wanting to play their preferred playstyle, I really do, but FFXIV doesn't really offer different playstyles, because the game is SO streamlined that all classes have the same final purpose, regardless of their role. There are no builds here, there are no alternate gear sets, there is virtually no variation at all in how a job can be played, because the game is designed that way. You can argue that the devs didn't intend healers to DPS or whatnot, but the tools are there, the way the fights are designed, the way tanks are designed, the power of the healing spells, etc, etc, etc. Fights are even scripted, so there's absolutely no variation to how a job is played other than what cooldowns are used at what specific timings, and even that can be argued to have an optimal execution.

This is coming from someone who loves to heal. I love stressing out as I look as HP bars in the party list go low and keeping up supportive buffs with short duration and etc etc etc. But that's not FFXIV. I used to hate the healer DPSing meta, but as I kept playing and learning more about the role, I came to like DPSing because that is how you play the game to the fullest. That's the real skill ceiling, and now that I see the game for what it is, I thoroughly enjoy DPSing as a healer and push myself to do so, because it means I'm good at being a healer in FFXIV. The game is objectively not designed to have pure healers, it is not a community thing.

Again, anyone is 100% free to not DPS as a healer at all, but all that is doing is basically ignoring the game's design. If you really want to only heal, then FFXIV really isn't the game for you.

[Fernosaur]

A bit of an echo, but I really like this post by Kitfox in another similar thread.

If you acknowledge you have tools, you should use 'em. Same as DPS who should use their Second Wind and defensive cooldowns if they're getting targeted by mechanics or dying otherwise, same as tanks who should use their DPS stance, same as BRD/MCH/NIN who should use their support for MP/TP when needed, Quelling Strikes/Shadewalker/Smoke Bomb to help with tank Enmity, same as BLM using Apocastasis as extra tank mitigation, same as SMN using Virus and Eye For An Eye for mitigation. Every class has abilities that are "outside of their role."

People need to stop thinking about what they should do and start thinking what they CAN do! Don't get hung up on role labels.

[craized]

You can play how you want. If you only want to heal then just heal. Personally I like to dps as well because it makes the dungeon go by quicker but you shouldn't be forced into it if you aren't comfortable with it and it has certainly blew up in my face a few times and wiped the group.

On another note people who vote kick a healer for only healing are knobs. Being able to vote kick a player not playing your play style in a random selected group is aaaaaall kinds of stupid. They pay exactly the same per month as you do.

[Lauren]

This topic is not new, but in light of the proposed changes, like two more dps classes which all the dps has to choose from, could we now leave healers alone to play as healers, and those who want to dps, dps? Thinking that many people would like to heal as a chosen playstyle. The feedback I have received before is that its not playing to 'optimal efficiency', but this is not a workplace it is where people come to enjoy themselves, not be coerced into doing a role that they didnt choose- dps as healer. Most dps did not choose to heal, and have a monopoly of different playstyles to choose from, on the other hand healers are being made to dps, to sort of make up for dps defiency, Then I see a question asking for harder content, just stop healer dps and the content will be harder to clear. Healers that want to dps go dps, leave others to heal or tank if thats what they enjoy.

Please read my response carefully ♥ This isn't an attack on any healing only healer. But an explanation as to why people get frustrated with this stance.

Here is a list of DPS skills from healing classes. I might have missed one or two (please forgive)
I've put skills I usually use in level 60 content in bold.

White Mage

• Stone
• Stone II
• Stone III
• Aero
• Aero II
• Aero III
• Assize*
• Fluid Aura
• Holy

Scholar

• Broil
• Ruin
• Bio
• Energy Drain
• Miasma
• Bio II
• Bane
• Ruin II
• Miasma II
• Shadow Flare

Astrologian

• Malefic
• Malefic II
• Combust
• Stella
• Combust II
• Gravity

* Heals as well as does DMG.


These are basically all the skills you're not using because you want to 'just heal'.

Most other class's do not have the luxury of ignoring a good portion their skill pool for any reason. It's not called "just heal" it's called "playing half of what my class can do for no reason other than laziness".

I'll explain why it's lazy soon but let me carry on.

Healers wanting to only heal is like the following...

• A Black Mage that uses only ice spells, doesn't dodge aoe attacks.
• A Tank using only flash and defensive cool downs to try hold aggro, doesn't dodge any attacks.
• A summoner not putting up their dots, summoning their pet.
• A bard not using dots or WR or songs.
• A MCH not using turret, wildfire or ammunition.
• Any DPS class not using oGCDs.

If you want to follow the rule of letting people play "how they like" then you can't get annoying when the above happens.


No one is expecting healers to min max with things like standing in melee range to get extra auto attacks in, or making sure to keep DPSing until the tank is so low you have to use emergency heals. However, and I speak for most people with this 'argument', watching healers stand mostly AFK during a lot of content is frustrating when you're doing even your most simple rotation. For DPS and Tanks, this means constantly pressing a button during all combat instances. If we all stood around and pressed the occasional button like a lot of healers do, dungeons would barely get completed. If that's want you want, carry on.

This is why people get upset. This is why people dub healing only healers "lazy"

It's not to do with how much or how little damage you do. It's nothing to do with being optimal in the slightest. It's about how active you are.

You can't hold the same expectation of any other class. If a tank does half their job, presses one button every now and then, they will either die or struggle to hold aggro, which causes the DPS to die. If DPS don't do enough damage it takes much longer for content to complete, or worse, you wipe because of specific mechanics/DPS checks.

There shouldn't be a point where you're not pressing some kind of action in a dungeon during fights - and overhealing is a waste of your time, mana and parties' time. There's no point throwing out Regen's and Stoneskin's every few minutes. It's a waste of your mana and should literally just be an extra Stone III/Broil/Malefic II instead. Scholars especially don't have an excuse as the fairy can comfortably solo heal a lot of low-level dungeons, leaving you to 99% DPS with no issue. This is something I personally do when I do levelling roulette.

It's also important to note how much DPS you actually do and how much it contributes. That extra Stone/Ruin/Stella makes such a huge difference that I don't even think you realise. Mobs die instanely fast when you have a DPS healer in a dungeon. I can't even begin to explain how good the benefits are because they're endless. Everyone is much happier, you're 99% likely to get teh commendation everytime, dungeons are faster, you have more time to do more content, you learn to get much better overal at managing your skill pool, oGCDs and class.

Also, it's so much more fun to juggle between DPS and Healing stances. Before I understand DPSing as a healer properly I found it incredibly boring. The odd heal went out and then I kind of just stood there. I was so bored.


Now, no-one is expecting you to DPS all the time. For example, the first Heavensward dungeon increases the damage the tank takes quite a lot compared to what your current new tank going in will be equipped with. They do take quite a bit of damage there and you will find yourself having to heal a lot. But the first boss for example, hardly any damage is going out for the first 30 seconds, you have time to pop a few dots on and spam your main damage spell a few times before needing to come out of cleric stance in good time to heal a minute tank buster, aoe dmg and deal with moving out the way of the charge.


In regards to your chosen playstyle: Healers in FFXIV aren't purely healers. No class is purely something in this game. Black Mage offers a magic dmg reduction shield, Summoners have a pet that can tank and a heal, Bards can recover TP and MP, Monk's can increase healing, dragoon has tons of stuns and a crit increase and can basically semi-tank, Ninja can switch aggro about, tanks can heal themselves, provide aoe shields and do tons of damage. Everyone has some kind of utility! If that's not what you want then FFXIV is not fitting your description of a healer.

No class is purely is as it is. When you level a healing class up there are tons of quests etc that require you to do damage and heal. What part of the game has shown you that you can only heal? The game isn't designed that way. And if this was the case, Scholar alone has so much DPS potential, it's literally insane to have this thinking. Why aren't those DPS skills removed when the class goes healer? Because there's supposed to be there and are supposed to be used.

You can disagree but every time I play as a DPS in a dungeon and see a healer mostly AFK healing, I am 100% justified to suddenly only-auto attack, or go ice mage, or remove my turret, or dismiss my pet, or just stop doing something for a few seconds until the tank is low on health and then attack again for a few seconds. And healers have no right to complain. Because I'm putting in as much effort as they are.

[Neela]

You can choose to play however you want, but if I see you leeching (aka not DPSing when there is no damage going out for an entire run) I'll votekick you near the end of the run and laugh.

no words for that kind of mindset... it's not that we talk about worlds first tier clears or something like that.. hm? Hardcore raider deserve their own icon... i would leave instantly if I would see one of these. I totally understand OPs opinion about dpsing or better "being forced" to dps – cause grinders just want to save some minutes in a daily run. Im raiding myself but won't ever vote kick for someone who sticks to his actual task. 100% is good for me, 120% is better yay but no "must have" especially in a random grp.

Even Yoshi stated that they want tanks being tanks again and healers being healers again - but this com still think everybody has to dps as much as they can...

[winsock]

we may all want to be athletic, but we cant all be.

This is actually a decent argument for heals only and the sole reason I don't give people a hard time in game. I can't really expect all people to take the game with the same level of seriousness across the board. I won't commendate heals only and they shouldn't expect to be seen as skilled. It doesn't take much skill to stand idle, and I'd rather applaud a good DPS or tank that made better use of their time.

Most of the arguing stems from people like yourself trying to make a case that heals only and heals+DPS have equal merit and players should be able to choose. It's not difficult to see why this notion is rejected:
Heals only is typically selfish. Your party must work harder to allow you to stand around doing nothing.

[Critical-Limit]

This is actually a decent argument for heals only and the sole reason I don't give people a hard time in game. I can't really expect all people to take the game with the same level of seriousness across the board. I won't commendate heals only and they shouldn't expect to be seen as skilled. It doesn't take much skill to stand idle, and I'd rather applaud a good DPS or tank that made better use of their time.

Most of the arguing stems from people like yourself trying to make a case that heals only and heals+DPS have equal merit and players should be able to choose. It's not difficult to see why this notion is rejected:
Heals only is typically selfish. Your party must work harder to allow you to stand around doing nothing.

Uh no. Nobody is asking for Olympian. Just show up to the gym and watch your eating.

That's not a good analogy at all.

[ADVSS]

you know you can still dps without cs, its not optimal but it still makes a difference even if slightly. The long argument, i did have personal experience of a smn only using ruin 2, it was a very painfully long dungeon...

[winsock]

Uh no. Nobody is asking for Olympian. Just show up to the gym and watch your eating.

That's not a good analogy at all.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/gym-me...ip-statistics/
Percent of people with gym memberships that never use them: 67%
The majority of people fail at just getting to the gym....

[Iromi]

Even Yoshi stated that they want tanks being tanks again and healers being healers again - but this com still think everybody has to dps as much as they can...

I remember him saying this too ^^ I hope he was serious. I loved playing healer in 1.x because that is what we did..heal! Since 2.x and beyond I dropped it...if I am going to DPS I'll hope on my SMN and do it proper. Till then I'll leave "healing" to others heh.