How to make the 3rd raid difficulty work

[Ghishlain]

I know they've discussed making a third tier of difficulty recently and that would be higher than current Savage content. If they do, I hope they add it in as a pure challenge standpoint and just make the content seriously challenging with vanity only rewards for completion of the content (IE, dyable raid pieces, mounts, unique minions and titles etc.) Force a min ilvl sync so it's completely about skill and not about over gearing the content too.

[NolLacnala]

...with vanity only rewards...

All raid gear becomes vanity gear a few months later, so this is a moot point

[Ghishlain]

All raid gear becomes vanity gear a few months later, so this is a moot point

I feel you've missed the point - what I'm proposing in my post is a vanity only reward that signifies the mark of an exceptional raider as they cleared the highest tiers of content for the sake of challenge. This isn't items for progression through a raid tier to make things easier that will go obsolete after the raid tier is done. This also doesn't necessarily mean gear either - it could be a title or a minion unique to the raid tier.

In fact we don't even need a reward - if the dev team is willing to put up an insane challenge on the table for the sake of challenging the top end tier raiders, I'm sure some people would bite. However just providing some small incentive to partake in the content that is unique from the gear grind would at least make it more desirable too and lure a few more players into the mix for this style of content.

[LunaFaye]

I feel you've missed the point - what I'm proposing in my post is a vanity only reward that signifies the mark of an exceptional raider as they cleared the highest tiers of content for the sake of challenge. This isn't items for progression through a raid tier to make things easier that will go obsolete after the raid tier is done. This also doesn't necessarily mean gear either - it could be a title or a minion unique to the raid tier.

I like the idea but only if it's available to these raiders that cleared the content. Most of the time, these items (vanity/glamour) being added to simpler content (potd,crafting as example). I hear people already saying again that content shouldn't be gated, but I mean it isn't really gated since everybody could access it, if they put some effort/time in it. I would do that content if we get glamour or titles, not so much if it's just minions or orchestra scrolls (hate these things).

[Arutan]

I like the idea but only if it's available to these raiders that cleared the content. Most of the time, these items (vanity/glamour) being added to simpler content (potd,crafting as example). I hear people already saying again that content shouldn't be gated, but I mean it isn't really gated since everybody could access it, if they put some effort/time in it. I would do that content if we get glamour or titles, not so much if it's just minions or orchestra scrolls (hate these things).

I say, let's get epic glamour armor in our top tier raid. Nobody complain about Feast rewards, so if they come cry over top tier Raid rewards, they can go *** themselves

[NolLacnala]

I feel you've missed the point

I didn't, but you did miss mine. What you are arguing for is what we currently have, except obsolete on arrival instead of usable for a few months. We even get titles and mounts. 2nd coil savage was touched by such a tiny percentage of the playerbase that they are only now considering revisiting it.

Unless you're implying a vanity item that's removed from rewards once echo hits that tier, which is as bad an idea as pvp's seasonal rewards.

[Ghishlain]

I didn't, but you did miss mine. What you are arguing for is what we currently have, except obsolete on arrival instead of usable for a few months. We even get titles and mounts. 2nd coil savage was touched by such a tiny percentage of the playerbase that they are only now considering revisiting it.

Unless you're implying a vanity item that's removed from rewards once echo hits that tier, which is as bad an idea as pvp's seasonal rewards.

Nah, we're talking about two separate things entirely and no, I didn't miss your point either.

You're implying the rewards for the highest tier content should be gear that's relevant to the gear score when content is released. However, for the sake of discussion in this particular topic, S-E has implied they would like to make a third raid tier. If it goes the way of three difficulty tiers, I would like to see the following:

Normal Tier - Similar to story mode Gordias, Midas, and Creator
"Savage" Tier - Similar to current Creator Savage
"You're Gonna Die a Lot" Tier - Similar to Second Savage

The reward we see now (and what you're looking at) would be suitable for the "Savage" tier whereas the items I'm suggesting to add would be simple vanity items for the people who can complete "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier. They are two separate item sets and "relevance" is to the eye of the beholder. In your post you're implying "relevance" is something that increases your gear score and makes your character more powerful. In my case "relevance" would be a small piece of item that caters to a small niche of the raider population that can and will handle the challenges thrown at time in the "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier.

The two are different. In fact, I only used non-progression reward type as a small incentive to participate in the "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier when I imagine there would be people who would partake in it even if there was literally 0 reward.

You make a good point about the Second Coil savage, though there was issues with that as well since it shared the same lockout as normal Second Coil. I've made my own comment about the meaningfulness of dedicating resources in this manner which is another debate entirely.

My thoughts behind a third tier of difficulty is that if they were to do it as a "challenge only" tier, it should min ilvl locked so it's a showcase of skill and not "how much can we outgear this fight". In addition, it would be possible to maintain this min ilvl lock on this third tier even when the previous two tiers become obsolete so the gear stays "relevant" and also isn't removed when a certain period of time has elapsed. This would also alleviate one of the concerns regarding the certain vanity items that were unique to PvP.