How to make the 3rd raid difficulty work

[NolLacnala]

I feel you've missed the point

I didn't, but you did miss mine. What you are arguing for is what we currently have, except obsolete on arrival instead of usable for a few months. We even get titles and mounts. 2nd coil savage was touched by such a tiny percentage of the playerbase that they are only now considering revisiting it.

Unless you're implying a vanity item that's removed from rewards once echo hits that tier, which is as bad an idea as pvp's seasonal rewards.

[Ghishlain]

I didn't, but you did miss mine. What you are arguing for is what we currently have, except obsolete on arrival instead of usable for a few months. We even get titles and mounts. 2nd coil savage was touched by such a tiny percentage of the playerbase that they are only now considering revisiting it.

Unless you're implying a vanity item that's removed from rewards once echo hits that tier, which is as bad an idea as pvp's seasonal rewards.

Nah, we're talking about two separate things entirely and no, I didn't miss your point either.

You're implying the rewards for the highest tier content should be gear that's relevant to the gear score when content is released. However, for the sake of discussion in this particular topic, S-E has implied they would like to make a third raid tier. If it goes the way of three difficulty tiers, I would like to see the following:

Normal Tier - Similar to story mode Gordias, Midas, and Creator
"Savage" Tier - Similar to current Creator Savage
"You're Gonna Die a Lot" Tier - Similar to Second Savage

The reward we see now (and what you're looking at) would be suitable for the "Savage" tier whereas the items I'm suggesting to add would be simple vanity items for the people who can complete "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier. They are two separate item sets and "relevance" is to the eye of the beholder. In your post you're implying "relevance" is something that increases your gear score and makes your character more powerful. In my case "relevance" would be a small piece of item that caters to a small niche of the raider population that can and will handle the challenges thrown at time in the "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier.

The two are different. In fact, I only used non-progression reward type as a small incentive to participate in the "You're Gonna Die a Lot" tier when I imagine there would be people who would partake in it even if there was literally 0 reward.

You make a good point about the Second Coil savage, though there was issues with that as well since it shared the same lockout as normal Second Coil. I've made my own comment about the meaningfulness of dedicating resources in this manner which is another debate entirely.

My thoughts behind a third tier of difficulty is that if they were to do it as a "challenge only" tier, it should min ilvl locked so it's a showcase of skill and not "how much can we outgear this fight". In addition, it would be possible to maintain this min ilvl lock on this third tier even when the previous two tiers become obsolete so the gear stays "relevant" and also isn't removed when a certain period of time has elapsed. This would also alleviate one of the concerns regarding the certain vanity items that were unique to PvP.

[ShinMetsu]

I'm also in favor of enforcing min iLv.
It's discouraging when you achieve a great feat and 2 patches later people can just faceroll it. Feelsbadman

As for rewards, personally i don't care about those as much.
Whether it be nothing or better gear, i'm fine with either.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

Why would i raid for a lousy title?, second coil did that and barely anyone did it. The best gear should always be a reward from the hardest content period.

[Zojha]

The best gear should always be a reward from the hardest content period.

Because, y'know...you'll need that gear to beat the hardestest content. Which must then reward better gear for the hardestestest content. Rinse and repeat.

It's sort of a curious logic - The better you are, the worse gear you need, yet the better you are, the better gear you supposedly deserve, so the more you need the gear, the worse gear you get and vice versa.

That kinda leads the purpose of stats ad absurdum. Is it really about stats or do people just want to flaunt their E-Peen? >_>

[Lone-wolfe-02]

Because, y'know...you'll need that gear to beat the hardestest content. Which must then reward better gear for the hardestestest content. Rinse and repeat.

It's sort of a curious logic - The better you are, the worse gear you need, yet the better you are, the better gear you supposedly deserve, so the more you need the gear, the worse gear you get and vice versa.

That kinda leads the purpose of stats ad absurdum. Is it really about stats or do people just want to flaunt their E-Peen? >_>

E-peen only children care about such things, i just want something to be worth my time.

Very few people would do it purely for the challenge (challenge is secondary, while getting gear is my primary motive) exclusive vanity rewards would make it worth it though because all about that glamour.

[Ghishlain]

Why would i raid for a lousy title?

Because Challenge - something that seems to be a common complaint among players at this juncture.

Not everyone needs an incentive of "gear" to want challenge - this avenue would give that section of players just that. Whether this is a meaningful use of resources however, that's up for debate.

[Hayward]

Why would i raid for a lousy title?, second coil did that and barely anyone did it. The best gear should always be a reward from the hardest content period.

If for no other reason, I can respect this post because it doesn't paper over the real reason people want harder content: To be special snowflakes who can do content that 90%+ of each server can't do and flaunt out-of-reach gear.

This was done in FFXI. We've seen that movie before. It was never about challenge then, nor is it the case now. It's all about three letters: E-G-O.

[FeliAiko]

Exclusive, vanity-based rewards is the only way to go for something like this IMO. It would also mean those with full ilvl/BiS gear getting to put said gear to use during the current cycle in content that's designed for it. The initial problem with Savage Coil was it sharing the same lockout (and loot) as Second Coil, so it hindered any incentive for others to do it in fear of ruining their chances of getting loot. At the same time I wonder whether it's worth designing 4 more fights for the sake of a minority within an already minority group, but if Yoshi already has the viewpoint of 'If we do it, well don't complain about it being too hard!' then more power to them I suppose.

[Vexander]

Titles and nothing else in my opinion. The only way to give the true hardcore world first types the ability to boast of their accomplishments, without everyone else wanting something involved from it.