My issues with PvP

[Atrayl]

What premade? Are PUGs unable to do damage? Is a DPS single handily solo'ing a healer somehow also mean premade?

Must have been a very bad healer.

Are you trying to say healing is OP because the same DPS you see in dungeons pulling numbers an eighth of their potential fail to place abilities together that would cause burst damage thus killing said target leaving their healer little time to respond if at all?

Yes, actually, because the healer doesn't need to do anything special to be invincible, but the DPS need to coordinate together to even have a chance of breaking through the ridiculous HPS healers have.

Also, about this myth, 10 minute stalemate??

What myth? A huge majority of the Feasts that I've done have gone to time. Just about the only ones that don't are when one side has a premade or partial premade and steamrolls the other in 30 seconds.

[Atrayl]

I also want to say that this community seems to be very hostile so far. Please stop with the "git good" posts. Not only do they add nothing of value to the discussion, but they aren't even applicable here.

The issue is that no matter how "good" any single player can "git," level of coordination required for PUGs that cannot even communicate to counteract the existence of a single healer is unfeasible. This causes an inherently imbalanced dynamic that makes the experience for the PUG player miserable.

Most people who PvP in MMOs do so casually in a PUG. That is where 90%+ of your PvP playership would come from if SE wanted to actually branch out into that market. All I'm saying is that, if they do, then the current PvP design will simply not resonate with that group of people and that playstyle.

[KusoWat]

Must have been a very bad healer.

But the 6+ players failing to out damage a single healer isn't allowed to be simply bad, but instead designated as PUGs failing coordination.

Yes, actually, because the healer doesn't need to do anything special to be invincible, but the DPS need to coordinate together to even have a chance of breaking through the ridiculous HPS healers have.

I can't fathom how you can agree that people whom are performing at 1/8th of their potential should be able to kill a healer because to them they are invincible.

What myth? A huge majority of the Feasts that I've done have gone to time. Just about the only ones that don't are when one side has a premade or partial premade and steamrolls the other in 30 seconds.

Timing out in Feast doesn't mean there aren't enough deaths. It's a medal system that exchanges them between each team upon killing others. It going into time out usually means a good game if the ending scores were relatively close. You realize you can either que solo or light party in Feast, correct? There are no partial premades in Feast. Unless we are referring to lol Feast (8v8) that has no balance, and has no intention for balance. Hence no role restrictions. If no one has died after those numerous culling stacks, then there are no words for it.

The Forums community is the group that always feels like people are attacking them when people give them facts/evidence that they are wrong.

Just as there are bad dps that can't kill mediocre healers, there are bad healers that die to mediocre dps. Casual healers exist as well.

[Llus]

Please stop with the "git good" posts.

Look, the Healers are OP threads have been going on for ages. If it isn't AST it's WHM, if it isn't WHM it's SCH. Before you come talking about how OP healers are in PVP, take some time to learn what your PvP burst is. I guarantee that if you do that, you'll be able to solo healers around 80% of the time - the other 20% got gud

[loreleidiangelo]

I'll be frank - people are saying "git gud" because you are honestly expecting them to balance PVP around the low-skill level of play, and that has consequences and repurcussions for the highest levels of play. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect two people to have to work together on a competitive game mode to burst down a target, and I've faced considerable pressure from even just ONE player before, if that person knows what they are doing. Consider that double Fell Cleave is 1000 potency alone and interrupts casting, meaning I can't just pre-heal if I see it coming unless my timing is on point. Consider also that good WARs will stun on the lead up into it, will have Berserk up, and Full Swing/Storm's Eye unless I've purged those first. Literally the only two healer moves that can "undo" that are Essential Dignity and Benediction, so if those moves are down and I have a second player even TAPPING me, I am forced to sack Swiftcast/Lightspeed or Attunement, a 3-4 minute cooldowns to survive. Also note that other classes have just as potent burst combos and you run into a lot of issues against skilled players who know how to capitalize on that.

Look, I'm really sorry that 8v8 is a bongofest right now because of the Garo event, but that's a player issue, not a healer design issue IMO. I don't believe we should be looking to design an entire ROLE around how people at the lower echelons of skill play, because it does have ramifications when you stack it up against skilled people who know how to optimize.

[Atrayl]

But the 6+ players failing to out damage a single healer isn't allowed to be simply bad, but instead designated as PUGs failing coordination.

What, do you think they are all auto attacking? Even if they aren't nailing a burst rotation, 6v1 is ridiculous for the healer to be able to heal through with ease.

I can't fathom how you can agree that people whom are performing at 1/8th of their potential should be able to kill a healer because to them they are invincible.

They aren't performing that poorly, healers really are just that good. I can't fathom how you can't see that.

Unless we are referring to lol Feast (8v8) that has no balance, and has no intention for balance.

If a game mode exists with no intention of balance, then that is yet another mark against this game's design.

The Forums community is the group that always feels like people are attacking them when people give them facts/evidence that they are wrong.

You are clearly being overly hostile. No rational person thinks "git good" is "giving someone facts."

[Atrayl]

Look, the Healers are OP threads have been going on for ages. If it isn't AST it's WHM, if it isn't WHM it's SCH. Before you come talking about how OP healers are in PVP, take some time to learn what your PvP burst is. I guarantee that if you do that, you'll be able to solo healers around 80% of the time - the other 20% got gud

I know what my burst is. It's not good enough. In dozens and dozens of hours of gameplay, I have yet to see a healer die in the Feast. I rarely see anyone die, for that matter. Just people plunking away at one another, running back when they get to 5% health to be healed to 100% with a single spell. It's out of control.

[Atrayl]

I'll be frank - people are saying "git gud" because you are honestly expecting them to balance PVP around the low-skill level of play, and that has consequences and repurcussions for the highest levels of play.

Literally every other game does it, so it clearly isn't unreasonable at all. There are ways to reward skill without making the game unplayable in a PUG.

I'm just offering my advice, after 15 years of MMO PvPing, as to what to do so that this game's PvP isn't the laughing stock of the MMO world that it currently is. This community can either discuss the topic like adults, or be children about it.

[KusoWat]

What, do you think they are all auto attacking? Even if they aren't nailing a burst rotation, 6v1 is ridiculous for the healer to be able to heal through with ease.

That's what they pretty much have to do to not 6v1 a healer. It's ridiculous that people are doing so little damage that they are failing to 6v1 a healer.

They aren't performing that poorly, healers really are just that good. I can't fathom how you can't see that.

They are performing below the average potential of the DPS. Healers aren't invincible. You should try playing a healer. Learn the perspective of a healer. Learn the intricacies of PvP. Then play PvP at a level that isn't the basement.

If a game mode exists with no intention of balance, then that is yet another mark against this game's design.

The game mode exist for practice, it was designated as a practice mode since its inception. Practice burst so DPS can kill these supposed unkillable healers.

You are clearly being overly hostile. No rational person thinks "git good" is "giving someone facts."

Telling you that a healer is not OP and/or invincible is giving you facts.
Explaining to you that the reason people perceive otherwise is because they are lacking individually. Not so much telling people to git gud, but that they are wrong in believing healers are too strong.

I know what my burst is. It's not good enough. In dozens and dozens of hours of gameplay, I have yet to see a healer die in the Feast. I rarely see anyone die, for that matter. Just people plunking away at one another, running back when they get to 5% health to be healed to 100% with a single spell. It's out of control.

What DPS do you play, maybe I can help.

[Culfinrandir]

I know what my burst is. It's not good enough. In dozens and dozens of hours of gameplay, I have yet to see a healer die in the Feast. I rarely see anyone die, for that matter. Just people plunking away at one another, running back when they get to 5% health to be healed to 100% with a single spell. It's out of control.

If you've never seen a healer die in the Feast I suggest you get an eye check or report someone using an invincibility hack. Unless the team is reasonably well coordinated & other players are protecting the healer they will, & do, die regularly. I simply cannot believe your claim that healers cannot be killed.