Mentor Players Kicking newer players from Duty Ques for low DPS

[Isala]

You accomplish nothing by bad mouthing players or vote kicking them, except halting their advancement in gear acquisition, learning their job, and often times, encouraging them to flat out quit.

And that mentality is part of the problem. Why shouldn't we vote kick players who refuse to put in the effort? We're not expecting players to pull the top percentile damage. Nobody expects that. But why should it EVER be okay for one person to hold a group hostage by playing so subpar you add "20 extra minutes" to a dungeon that only takes 20 minutes in the first place? We're not talking Tam-Tara here. We're talking level 60 content, when people should know their crap by 50. It was the previous max level, and you frankly SHOULD be expected to care by then. To get through all that content, and still be terrible? You're not even trying, and you fully deserve every kick you receive.

[Daniolaut]

You're not even trying, and you fully deserve every kick you receive.

Someone who joined the game in 2014 *should* have more experience with 1-50 actions/leveling methods/gil acquisition/yada yada.

Someone who joined 1-2 months ago, is only going to have experience with 1-60 story content, and some dungeons/trials along the way, with which they partied with people most likely at *cap* item level, not *minimum* item level.

but

not even trying.

terrible.

and

deserve every kick.

Absurd.

The only reason the dungeon takes 20 minutes in the first place, is because it was introduced when most people were at item level 250-260 or even 270, but the dungeon itself is granting 245 gear... meaning its actual design is meant for a lower item level than 245.

[Juicinators]

What's an extra 10 or 20 minutes in an MMO. People play for thousands of hours.

[Daniolaut]

my gear lvl is 202 so of course I am a newer player.

you really need to get your lancer up to 34. Blood for Blood for the DPS, but more importantly, you lack invigorate. .

And since i'm here, Pur3ify I will give you advice instead of just "tell" you what youre doing wrong.


There is a leve in camp Tranquil called "Adamantoise Tears" that can be completed in 15 seconds, and you can put it at maximum difficulty and complete it no matter what gear you have for lancer. Just need the action "sprint."

Pick up the eggs is the only requirement.

(there are many leve's similar to this type of leve, which is the "fastest" way to gain levels at really low levels. Just need to figure out which ones only require you to pick something up, and repeat it. Sometimes, you will have that leve quest "disappear" and then you just do 1-2 "other" ones, and it will "reappear.")



This way you can get Lancer up, so people cant give the excuse you dont have your sub class actions.





But, that is "powerleveling" and they might bad mouth you for doing that...

[Isala]

Absurd.

The only reason the dungeon takes 20 minutes in the first place, is because it was introduced when most people were at item level 250-260 or even 270, but the dungeon itself is granting 245 gear... meaning its actual design is meant for a lower item level than 245.

You and I obviously have a different metric for terrible. I'm talking players doing sub-500 DPS level bad. As you can literally do that spamming Blizzard, and ONLY Blizzard as a BLM, or nothing but Heavy Shot as a BRD, and this is back when I tested it during the i230 gearings, BTW... You literally are NOT TRYING. I'm talking players who sit there and stare at monsters, instead of doing anything. Because that's the only way to add an additional 20 minutes, because even hitting one button over, and over and over again, will still add enough DPS to push the dungeon along. And yes, those players do deserve every Votekick. I'm not playing this game so they can come into a dungeon, watch Netflix, and hit a button every 30 seconds.

And for the record, for sheer understanding of where I'm coming from to judge such players. A completely naked BRD, wearing only a 230 weapon, can push 550 DPS, if they know their rotation. If you're going to tell me that it's "unreasonable" to expect people to out DPS a naked character? There's a problem.

[Daniolaut]

You and I obviously have a different metric for terrible.

I would put that under "arguing."

I am with you all the way up until you say you would kick them.


If you try to talk to them, and they don't respond, or appear AFK, I think that falls under correct Square-Enix guidelines for vote kicking.

But someone who is trying or appearing to try, to me, isn't justifiably kicked.

Honestly in my opinion, the only way you can know how much each class does under each circumstance is if you are parsing, and just because Square-Enix turns a blind eye, and the community accepts this kind of gameplay, does not mean it's not breaking the terms of service, as well as cheating. (Talk to the PvP players about this.)

So, if you aren't going to play the intended way, how can you expect someone else.


It's a bit of hypocrisy.

[Isala]

So, if you aren't going to play the intended way, how can you expect someone else.


It's a bit of hypocrisy.

Don't even have to parse to know someone isn't pulling their weight. That BLM who doesn't use Enochian? That DRG who never uses Blood of the Dragon? The BRD who doesn't set up DoTs? Even watching what their cast bars tell you is a real fast sign when someone is halfway AFK. It's not hard when you actually play a class to know when someone is just phoning it in.

And bluntly, I have never said I kick players who try. Nowhere in there did I imply that it's players who try that get the boot. It's the ones who I can tell are literally just there to /follow and do no actual effort that I remove.

[LalaRu]

Reading here and there, I feel like the entitlement ran so high that some community now demands everyone playing top notch even when on DF.

Sadly, after some year have passed, I see the problem worsen by the day. All those upset because being matched with "bad" players I think are losing what they are doing: playing a game. They were so focused on their "mission" that they lost where they are and thinking the game is all about maxing efficency, dps, and top raiding. It is not. It is only how you choose to play it. DF is a means to help all players go ahead and learn at their peace, or don't learn at all, because maybe they are playing a game just to kill some time, and have no interest on being the top raider of the world.

When you are a top player, on DF you are being matched with the rest of the world. That is nothing to be upset to, it is the DF's mission. Or else the new or sub-par player will be more and more emarginated by the growing number of expert players that won't want play with them and making a community apart. So much apart that now claiming their own "rights" to the point to kick out people from DF for not being in their league.

And now (trying to go back to the topic) we see players clearly abusing of the Mentor feature, that I need to remind, it is not only a crown on your head, but also good perks with it, and those people wants get all benefits of perks but not giving in exchange what they agreed to, when applying for mentor: help players.

Yes, you Mentor will find lazy people, entitled noobs, every kind of bestiary you can get on DF, but it is what you have to expect, and you have to deal with. Nicely.

To make some IRL equivalent of Mentoring, if you get hired on a customer support and then turning away all customers you don't like, your job won't last a day.

[Isala]

To make some IRL equivalent of Mentoring, if you get hired on a customer support and then turning away all customers you don't like, your job won't last a day.

To make another IRL equivalent of Mentoring, it's like being in IT, trying desperately to get someone to understand the basics of using the mouse to right click, and them getting angry at you because that's not how they want to use their mouse. And then complaining that you didn't help them when you finally give up on them.

[ElHeggunte]

Reading here and there, I feel like the entitlement ran so high that some community now demands everyone playing top notch even when on DF.

No one is expecting topnotch skill. We just expect you to make an effort. Those aren't anywhere near asking for the same thing. The only entitlement is from the people who think that just by making it into the queue means they should be able to do whatever they want without repercussion, even if it means dragging down the other 3/7/23 players in whatever group was unfortunate enough to receive them.

Sadly, after some year have passed, I see the problem worsen by the day. All those upset because being matched with "bad" players I think are losing what they are doing: playing a game. They were so focused on their "mission" that they lost where they are and thinking the game is all about maxing efficency, dps, and top raiding. It is not. It is only how you choose to play it. DF is a means to help all players go ahead and learn at their peace, or don't learn at all, because maybe they are playing a game just to kill some time, and have no interest on being the top raider of the world.

Once again, there is a very big difference between being a "top raider" and just putting in real effort. The time for teaching someone more than a fight's mechanics also ends after a certain period. The OP being level 60 in Sohr Khai, for example, is long past the point where they should know what gear BRDs wear and should have had a solid grasp on their rotation ages ago.

And we get "upset" because the game is no longer fun when you're paired with a dead-weight that obviously doesn't care enough to try. Especially when that results in extra long duties or duties that can't be cleared at all because they can't or wont play the game on a most basic level.

When you are a top player, on DF you are being matched with the rest of the world. That is nothing to be upset to, it is the DF's mission. Or else the new or sub-par player will be more and more emarginated by the growing number of expert players that won't want play with them and making a community apart. So much apart that now claiming their own "rights" to the point to kick out people from DF for not being in their league.

Good. Someone who refuses to try doesn't deserve to play with everyone else. It would be nice if everyone I met was always "in my league", but I know better than to ever expect that in DF. I will expect that you know the basics of your class and know how to gear it once you reach a certain point though.

And now (trying to go back to the topic) we see players clearly abusing of the Mentor feature, that I need to remind, it is not only a crown on your head, but also good perks with it, and those people wants get all benefits of perks but not giving in exchange what they agreed to, when applying for mentor: help players.

Don't put this all on Mentors and veterans.

1) Too many players don't want to be helped, no matter how you offer.
2) After a point, there are certain types of help you shouldn't have to give if the person on the other end actually cared enough to help themselves. Why should the rest of us waste effort on helping someone who doesn't want to help themselves?

Yes, you Mentor will find lazy people, entitled noobs, every kind of bestiary you can get on DF, but it is what you have to expect, and you have to deal with. Nicely.

Telling them why they're being removed and then removing them is dealing with the situation nicely. Mentors and vets aren't obligated to bring the entire run to a halt to teach someone their class or to carry what's clearly a lost cause.

To make some IRL equivalent of Mentoring, if you get hired on a customer support and then turning away all customers you don't like, your job won't last a day.

Other players in your DF would be coworkers, not customers. And employees that are blatantly dragging down the company are summarily replaced since any company okay with crushing mediocrity never lasts long.